Posted by: BHL (Knight1285@aol.com) on Mon Feb 16 20:39:03 2004

>>> I would agree with you if the hitter is taught to slide the hands through in a linear motion to do the fence drill. However, if the drill is to be done correctly, both elbows must be bent.
>
> Now please do not get me wrong, I'm not positing that the hitter should push with his arms. I just think a batter should bend both arms as much as possible, and work that lead elbow up to "stop all linear movements in its tracks," and force the body to rotate as soon as the heel drops. Also note that the angle of the elbows neither increase nor decrease during the drill. The front foot is open to at least 45 degrees to afford the hitter a good CHP, and the weathervaning allows the hitter to get tight shoulder rotation, allowing the top hand significant BHT, while the bottom hand acquires good THT. This is the only way to hit a 98 mph low-inside tailing fastball without having the bat sawed off by the pitcher.
>
> Jack believes weathervaning produces an inconsistent swing plane, but your DVD swing proves otherwise. In fact, this month I posted an argument on that very issue--"For John--DVD Swing Analysis"--where I analyze what I see in your swing. Perhaps you can respond it briefly (if you haven't already), and tell me what I might have "erred."
>
> I believe you must keep tight in an arc, then sweep if the pitch is outside (no straight hand path on either one).
>
> But, since we are diametrically opposed to each other on the value of the fence drill, let's just agree to disagree.<<<
>
> Hi BHL
>
> You stated, “I just think a batter should bend both arms as much as possible” and “note that the angle of the elbows neither increase nor decrease.” In another post, I think you referred to both elbows being “chickened winged.” That would mean the angle between the biceps and the forearm of the lead-arm to remain at about 25 to 30 degrees during the swing. Is that about the degree you advocate. If not, what degree would you recommend them to remain at? --- Is this just your recommendation, or is it also advocated by Mike?
>
> Jack Mankin
>
> Dear Jack,

I understand that Mike advocates "extending through the ball" slightly before contact (i.e., pure chp up until that point), "as the hands follow the rotating body around the axis," but do not recommend any extension. In that respect, we differ.

However, you seem to suggest that if the front arm is not across the chest, the linkage would be poor, simulcara to "a 1000 hp engine with a transmission that slips." You would suggest there is no body linkage, so how can anybody get a good lead shoulder pull?

My answer is that when your heel drops, the lead elbow myst work up. This pushes back against the rest of the body, and forces the upper and lower body to rotate in unison. It also pushes the front shoulder back, allowing a hitter to attain a significant amount of BHT on the bat.

I guess this is where we differ. You believe that weathervaning leads to "an inconsistent swing plane," but I, as well as Mike, believes that "the plane of the swing must match the plane of the swing. There is no uppercutting in rotational hitting, only swinging slightly up, accomplished by hinging the back knee, and dropping the back shoulder. And this can only occur if the lead shoulder works up."

As a result, my model of the swing--borrowed almost entirely from Mike Epstein with the exception stated above, relies on maintaining the same degree of bend in the arms on inside pitches. Because the front elbow working up forces the body and shoulder to rotate, it is possible to make the fence drill work using this model. On the other hand, if a hitter rests his arm across his chest, he is fated to hit the fence. In other words, my swing model uses a swing plane you disagree with, but, when practicing it, I could find no linear components of my swing--and the bat arc was much tighter. Yes, it came close to hitting the fence on high speed swings, but did not, which is the objective of the drill, and I stood about a foot away with a 35-inch bat.

Using your model, no weathervaning would occur, and the bat would go wider, and hit the fence. This is the reason why Clemens and Leiter "saw off" bats with blazing inside fastballs.

Put bluntly, my swing plane model allow the fence drills to work.
Your swing plane model may not be suitable to this beneficial drill, essential to turning aroung inside, tailing fastballs.

Sincerely,
BHL
Knight1285@aol.com

P.S. Earlier this month, I posted a message entitled "For John--DVD Swing Analysis," and noted how he weathervanes. Perhaps you might want to take a look at it, and give me some feedback on that too, since it relates to swing planes.