Posted by: Jack Mankin (MrBatspeed@aol.com) on Tue Aug 7 23:16:26 2001

Hi All

Below is an e-mail exchange I had with Mark Smith, Head Coach of Canada's Men's National Fastpitch Softball Team. There are coaches that come to the site that are more qualified to discuss fastpitch hitting than I am. I thought I would post our remarks (with Mark’s ok) for others who may like to join the discussion.

Jack Mankin

>>> My name is Mark Smith and I am the head coach of Canada's Men's National Fastpitch Softball Team. I have read some of the information on your site and certainly agree with many points. Successful hitters have many things in common, including sound mechanics, however the information on your site tends to address baseball hitters moreso than softball hitters. In fastpitch softball the swing plane is be "down and through" the hitting zone, much like the swings of a Paul Molitor, George Brett, Tony Gwynn or Rod Carew and of late Ichiro Suzuki of Seattle. In my opinion those men were pure hitters, athletes able to use the same swing in either sport. Most major league hitters would make a living in fastpitch softball because the swing is shorter and more compact, plus the rise ball would dominate them initially. I realize men's fastpitch softball is a fairly low profile sport, but I can tell you that in the United States, most fastpitch players are former baseball players, some with double AA and tripple A experience who for whatever reason couldn't make it to the "show".

I think your site offers a great perspective on hitting and gives the avid hitter or coach "food for thought", but I would suggest that fastpitch softball at the world class level employs a slightly different swing path and can be more handsy or wristy if you like give the short pitching distance (46ft) and the importance of having a short compact stroke.

I'd love to critique your video and see what over comments I could offer from the men's game. Thanks for your time.<<<

Hi Mark

Thank you for your interest in the site, and its' material. -- Mark, I would have to take exception with your statement, "the swings of a Paul Molitor, George Brett, Tony Gwynn or Rod Carew and of late Ichiro Suzuki of Seattle," have a "down and through" swing plane. I would agree that their swing plane may be more level in the zone than most of the power hitters. But even their planes have leveled out and are on a slight up-slope at contact.

By the way, studying the swing of George Brett is when I discovered the mechanic I call top-hand-torque. With it, he was not only capable of hitting for a high average he was also able to hit with real power. Plus, his swing time from initiation to contact was shorter than Tony Gwynn or Rod Carew.

I know that most coaches, especially fastpitch coaches, think the quickest way to get the bat-head to the ball is with "quick extension of the hands" type of mechanics. That is just not true. Hitters like Bonds and A-Rod who keep the hands back and allow shoulder rotation (with top-hand-torque) to bring the hands to the zone, they get the bat-head to the ball in 4 to 4-1/2 video frames after initiation. The players who use their arms and drive the top-hand forward at initiation take 5 to 5-1/2 frames and the hands travel 6 to 10 inches farther to make contact. Sticking with the "quick hands" mechanics, instead of using the larger muscle-groups of the body, has caused many hitters, baseball and softball, to use lighter and lighter bats with progressively weaker driving substance.

Mark, ask yourself this question. -- If the lower release point of the softball pitcher would make a good baseball swing ineffective, say Barry Bonds, --- why is major league baseball not filled with submarine type pitchers? They have a release point that is 10 to 12 inches lower than fastpitch yet they do not prove to be that effective against the better hitters.

PS: This would be a good topic for the discussion board. Would you mind if I posted it?

Best regards,

Jack Mankin

##

“ Hi Jack,

Thanks for the prompt reply. Let me say first that I have not researched hitting to the extent that you have, my 20 plus years of experience comes from being a world-class softball pitcher and hitter and studying the great hitters of both sports to see what they did to be so successful. I thought a bit about your comments and would like to offer my two cents worth if you don't mind.

You said that Brett got the barrel to the hitting zone quicker than Carew or Gwynn and that brings to mind two pisibilities: 1. He started with his hands close to his natural launch position which allowed him to be quicker to the contact zone or 2. he tended to hit the ball more out in front. Both Gwynn and Carew by their own admission waited longer on the pitch before commiting to swing, this may allow for the longer extra frames to contact or they took slightly longer to get to their natural launch positions before initiating their swings.

I find Barry Bond's comment about submarine pitching interesting. in 1982 I was invited to the Kansas City Royal's spring training as an expirement of sorts. As a fastpitch pitcher I was clocked at 109 mph underhand from 46 feet at the 81 ISC World Tournament, in the fall of 81 I was contact by a Royals scout and asked if I'd be interested in attending spring training at their expense. Trying to throw a 9 inch baseball from 60ft 6 inches with an under hand motion minus the full whip is very difficult and it stands to reason that there were few Dan Quisenberry's or Kent Tulkelve's in baseball. It was far to labouring on the arm from that distance, in fact I threw harder coming over the top in the conventional way most baseball pitchers throw.

Bonds starts with his hands low which makes hitting to ball mid thigh and down easier for him. In the past few weeks when his home run tear has subsided, he's missing pitches (popping them up) up in the zone. If he carried his hands higher and leveled off his swing he'd be even more dangerous than he is.

You commented that the hitters I mentioned have more level swings but slight uppercut near the finish and I would agree, but their path to the ball appears initially downward. Even in softball using a down and through swing path creates a slightly upward follow through, but that's after contact. The path to the ball is on a downward plane.

More and more in major league baseball I see the softball swing being employed. Driving the ball usually means staying on top of the pitch and to do that you have to create a downward swing path. the monsters like Sosa and MacGuire will survive because in baseball every pitch breaks down and most pitchers aren't strike out pitchers, they rely on ground balls. But when you see the late inning closers come in with the 95 mile per hour heater, you don't often see even the guys with the upper cut swings driving the fastball up in the zone.

we could debate this for hours Jack and I really appreciate your taking the time to reply. If you'd like to post my thoughts, thats great and I thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Mark Smith