Posted by: Jose () on Tue Apr 20 11:59:31 2004

>>> Jack and BHL, I wish you two could hash out the comparisons and contrasts of your views on this subject. I think it would be enlightening to all. In the interest of having a serious discussion, though, I would request the webmaster to not allow the discussion to be interupted with side issues, insults, etc. It would be great for others to join in the dialog, but it would be helpful to the dialog for the webmaster to be very cautious in allowing posts that are even in the slightest sarcastic, irrelevant, mean-spirited, etc. Allowing one sarcastic comment to be posted results in someone else wanting to "get even". Let's just hash this thing out based on a relevant and respectful dialog.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Who goes first, Jack or BHL? <<<
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Jose
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > BHL and I have presented our views on this subject in great detail. Nothing new is being uncovered and nothing is gained by rehashing old views. The bottom line is what I stated in a post below. --- “BHL believes all hitters should be taught to pull all pitches. - I believe that although great hitters have mechanics that allow them to successfully pull outside pitches, the swing mechanics used by most hitters would breakdown when attempting to pull balls on the outer part of the plate.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I see nothing that can be gained by restating our known positions on pulling outside pitches. Therefore, unless something new is presented, I will not OK a post to this thread.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jack Mankin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Jack,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am going to present a geometric argument for my viewpoint, specifically as it pertains to bat length, plate size, and increasing radial arc, based on the assumption that the bat-head will travel the same number of degrees on all three pitches (i.e., 225 degrees on inside, middle, and outside pitches). Early tomorrow morning, I will post the specific calculations. I can't wait until tomorrow...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BHL
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I will now post my calculations that show why pull hitting does not exacerbate swing tendencies. We will see that, by keeping the rate of angular displacement at a constant (i.e., 225 degrees), the batter need only widen the circumference of bat-head rotation to ensure that he or she can hit to the “natural” field with regularity.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nevertheless, effective pull hitting dictates that the batter stand at the proper distance from the plate. Suppose, for instance, a softball player uses a 34-inch, 26-ounce Worth EST Extra. My recommendation is that he or she stand at least 34 inches off the back edge of the inside corner. Now, many individuals are going to posit that such a move will make it more difficult to hit outside pitches. If we put geometry before instinctual criticism, the distance of the plate with actually force the batter to realize that, in order to be successful, the bat-head must be accelerated in a circle.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the sake of simplicity, all pitches will be thrown around shoulder height, since the clearest way to demonstrate my argument is to depict a way arcing parallel to the ground. Functionally, though, the hitter would most likely hit pitches in which the bat head swept in arc tilted 45 degrees to the ground.
> > > > >
> > > > > In all scenarios, the batter is a right-handed hitter whose bat-head begins pointing in the direction of the third base line, but, at contact, swings all the way around 225 degrees to a position 45 degrees between the first and third base line.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since I advocate looking in, and adjusting out, for the reason that the hitter does not gain as much angular displacement on these pitches, and, hence, must be quicker with the bat. The finer details as to why this true will surface near the conclusion of my argument.
> > > > >
> > > > > On all pitches, the bat must travel 225 out of 360 degrees to pull pitches to left, or .625 of a whole circle. The number must be multiplied by the product of twice the radial lever--the whole circumference—times pi.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2(34 in.)(.625)(pi) = 42.5 in (pi), or a circumference of approximately 133.52 inches.
> > > > >
> > > > > On the pitch over the plate, the only variable in the calculation will be the increased width of the circumference, resulting from a moderate amount of casting. Hence, the bat-head will travel out half the length of a seventeen-inch plate, or 8.5 inches, which, when added to 34 inch bat, increases the lever-arm to 42.5 inches.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2(42.5)(.625)(pi) = 53.125 in (pi), or a circumference of approximately 166.90 inches.
> > > > >
> > > > > On outside pitches, since the entire plate must be covered, the circumference will widen even more. Specifically, if we take the sum of the length of the plate, and the plate, we get a radial arm of 51 inches.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2(51 in.)(.625)(pi) = 63.75 (pi), or a circumference of approximately 200.28 inches.
> > > > > According to the rules of physics, since the outside pitches necessitate using a wider circumference than those middle-in, the bat has more time to accelerate, meaning that these balls will pulled harder than inside pitches. This means that all pitches can be pulled. It is advantageous to use this modality all the time.
> > > > >
> > > > > Case closed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > BHL
> > > > > Knight1285@aol.com
> > > > >
> > > > > As for who I am, my name is Geoff, and I hold an M. A. in English Literature, and am going into doctoral studies in this very area. I remember that when I started the Independent League, there were many athletes better than me. One of nicest compliments I ever received though, was how I used the gifts the Lord gave me to achieve.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Don't factor in the very short reaction times a baseball hitter has, his ability to process what he sees, where it is and what swing is needed where and how. Of course, those calculations may not be in your favor. Those calculation would not lead to 'case closed' so let's leave them out.
> > > >
> > > > And, how many times will you close the case. It's been 3 or 4 already. Sounds to me like even you aren't convinced.
> > >
> > > Hi Teacherman,
> > >
> > > I am convinced, and my next step happens to be arguing for hitters to use longer bats in order to enhance the proper circulat hand path.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > BHL
> > > Knight1285@aol.com
> > >
> > > P.S. Here, on Batspeed.com, facts substantiated by calculations are far better than obstinate opinions supported by gut premonitions.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jack, can we get the dialog back on track? One person has dismissed BHL's calulations without commenting on any specific disagreement with his calculations. Another person has suggested that BHL has made a a good case. What I would like to see is YOUR evaluation of his calcs.I would love to see other people's evaluation as well, as long as the evaluation addresses specifics of his math & not just a general agreement or disagreement. This is a golden opportunity for us to discuss FACTS (pro or con) for once instead of the same old stuff about personalities, credentials, etc.BHL has made a presentation based on math & science, now Jack, can you lead the way in evaluating his analysis based on science and math? Thanks so much, let's have a great discussion!
>
> Nothing wrong with his calculations except they are incomplete. They don't factor in the time issue.

To BHL:how do your calcs account for the time factor?
To Teacherman: ok, why don't do insert your own time factor into the equation and then tell us what, if anything you see wrong with BHL's model. And please, specifics, not generalities, facts, not credential & personality issues.Ball is in your court, BHK and Teacherman.