Posted by: Doug () on Wed Apr 21 21:14:50 2004

>>> However, you should note that dead pull hitting requires the bat-head to rotate 45 degrees past a normal centerfield position. This is how I came up with the 225 degree arc. <<<
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> > > Hi BHL
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> > > I sincerely do not mean this to be cruel, but you should stick to English Literature because you obviously do not have a good grasp of geometry. Rotating the bat 45 degrees past perpendicular (from hitting the ball straight away) would NOT pull the ball down the third base line (“dead pull”, as you referred to it). Having the bat at 45 degrees would cause the ball to exit the bat parallel with the back of the plate or the back-stop. This means it would be hit 45 degrees to the left of the third base foul line.
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> > > BHL, the correct use of geometry would have told you that the maximum amount the bat could be rotated past perpendicular and still hit the ball fair would be 22.5 degrees. But, due to the “hooking effect” generated from impacting the outside part of the ball, about 17 to 19 degrees past perpendicular is closer to the actual maximum.
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> > > Jack Mankin
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> > I wonder how many real good hitters even know how to spell geometry? If you want to be taken seriously as a hitter or hitting coach, acting like a nerd won't do it. Using math to talk about the swing is very nerdish and won't teach anyone how to make a good swing. A good swing is not complicated, but some people want to reinvent the wheel, and that is what is happening with BHL. You never answered Teacherman's question, and never answered any of my questions.Talking about Mel Ott and how he hits is nonsense when there are about 3 clips of Ott in existance. Bonds uses a 34" 31 1/2 oz bat and chokes up 2 inches. I doubt very much if he thinks much about geometry.
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> > Doug
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> give BHL a break...there is nothing wrong with searching for a mathematical or a scientific model...in the quest for The Perfect Swing Model (which may never be found)we all do it here and at setpro...i don't think Bonds thinks about math or science but i bet he also does not think about top hand torque, chp, scap load or any of the other stuff we discuss...but that won't stop us from our search for The perfect swing Model, will it?
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> and Jack, please don't misinterpret my remarks, because i do think all the "stuff" i mentioned that we talk about is good...my point is simply that just because most major leaguers simply do it does not mean that we should not, in our own way search for Truth....and i happen to think that any math and/or science that is added to the discussion will ENHANCE our quest for Truth, not detract from it....
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> p.s.point on bonds not thinking about math is well taken...i might also point out that once bonds said that when he hits he throws his hands at the ball...so obviously he is not thinking about Pure Rotational Mechanics either...or how about this one? Griffey jr has said that he is a "weight shift hitter", not a "rotational" hitter...al kaline said that contact is made at full x-t, yet video proves he himself contacted in the top arm "L" position...and we, myself included have the nerve to anlayze these players and tell them that WE understand their swing better than THEY do!!!!!

grc, I don't think there is a perfect swing. Each of the "great" hitters do some things that are similar, but they also have their own "approach" and their own "style". The thing that they have most in common is talent. Bonds actually says that he tries to catch the ball with his bat head........that comes from his father, who was his only hitting coach. Griffey does have a weight shift, and then rotates, so he is correct when he says he is a weight shift hitter.He does not use nor does he care about using the words used on this site or any other site.I have a clip of Kaline from "when it was a game" where he made contact at full extension. Great hitters use cues that work for them.......they may not sound right to some people, but when a guy thinks about pulling through with his bottom hand or using more top hand, it is not that he is doing it, but that he feels that he is doing it. Feel is the number one thing that great hitters have, and it is not something that can be taught or explained on a blackboard. Feel is part of their talent, and it separates the great from the mediocre. I had the pleasure of listening to Mays in 1966 answering three young players when they asked him what the best way to hit a curve ball was.......he said that the best way to hit the curve was to hit the fastball first......and he was serious and he was correct. What Bonds has is 1. great talent 2. great genetics 3. great work habits that have allowed him to get better as he gets older 4. 8725 major league at bats that have given him the experience to figure things out. Most big leaguers figure things out more and more as time goes on, but as they get older and smarter, their body gives out.......Bond's body has gotten better due to his work habits which allows him to combine his experience, strength and talent at an age when most guys are headed to the golf course.

Doug