Posted by: South () on Wed Sep 9 18:39:26 2009

I want to try to explain what I see the best I can. See, I majored in Chem in school with physics being my secondary concentration. So when you are using the physics concepts they do not apply to what is happening. Torque is not a force. Torque is the result of a force applied to a length around an axis. So if you had the tire wheel example, just pushing down would cause the tire nut to turn. Same as using wrench, that is Torque. Forces are vector quantities which mean they have a direction. Directions are straight line motions, not circles. So when your hips/shoulders apply the force to rotate your body, that is the torque.

To circle a ball on a string, or to make the bat circle around your body, a force has to be applied inward towards your body to keep the bat on that circular path.

***When you are looking from the top down view, the bat is not on the same plane as the camera, so it is moving away from you then back towards you. The path described on the analysis is around a fixed point (the head/body).****

HERE IS WHAT I SEE. Looking at Rose's video, when the hip/shoulder turn begins, the bat is in the same relation to the shoulder through rotation- this is what i mean by bat staying over shoulder -the rotation around the the tilted axis brings the hands to contact. Looking at the angle of the thumb to the wrist on Rose you see it flatten out. This is the "linear" force of the top hand "whipping" the bat head to the ball-shoulder also rotate very little from point before to contact. Now on the second video when you look at the yellow dots drawn for the CHP, the displacement of the hands looks more elliptical (linear) --short,lesser arc leading to a longer arc from the body and lining back out on the follow through. That is what is DRAWN on the video. Knob to the ball theory??? I don't like that, but CHP wouldn't describe it either.

My problem is that the bat is a LEVER with hands being the pivot point. (just like using a hammer or a wrench) so here comes in the torque. The bat head is the resistance and the effort comes from the top hand (like Rose's thumb/wrist angle change) the forearm muscles. (Hitters have solid forearm muscles and strong wrist, but they don't use their hands?) The bottom has is the fulcrum making this a third-class lever. On one video, you showed that the hands move a little and the bat moves a great distance - THIS IS WHAT A THIRD CLASS LEVER DOES - since the time is the same through the lever, a shorter distance move of the effort (top hand) makes the resistance (bat head) move faster!!!!!! BAT SPEED.

Here is my PHILOSOPHY - 1. the body rotates the hands into the hitting zone, make sure bat stays "over shoulder", this is the same movement on every pitch(short swing/hands stay in). 2. For middle/away pitches, the top hand effort gets the bat head to the ball, as that happens you can hit through the baseball to drive the pitch (impulse/impact theories) 3. On an inside pitch, the hands must be pulled across the body kinda like towards where the front hip is now, to get the bat head on the ball and drive the pitch without pulling the ball foul.

Last thing, pulling the outside pitch off the tee like shown in video is not a good swing. I know you make the red dots to show path of bat and that it can make contact anywhere in there. Well, with the line drawn for the path of the ball angling away from the hitter, if contact is made to opposite field it is going to be off the end of the bat. Also the bat is going to be on a lower plane due to going upwards, so if contact is made back farther you have a weak bloop in first base foul territory. With the way I describe the swing, the SWEET SPOT of the bat stays in a plane that will be able to make contact with the ball. For example if the bat head does not come to contact on an inside pitch at the right moment, the lagging of the head will allow contact still on sweet spot and a little line drive into the CF-RF gap. THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME IN MLB WHEN 3 OR 4 HOLE HITTERS HIT INSIDE PITCHES TO OPPO GAP.
If I was rotational coming to that ball and it runs in, I'm picking up my thumbs.

I'm truly enjoying this discussion. So I have addressed the questions of Pete Rose swing, that the bat head is accelerated by the hands due to being a lever and the body rotating provides the energy for hands to cause a greater effort force - transfer of energy here, The concept of circular motion with physics explanations, what torque is, and the problem of the plane of the camera and changing plane of the bat.

PLEASE respond back to my theories...The linear vs. rotational is not what i'm concerned with. I believe that there is not one or the other!!