Posted by: Coach C () on Wed Nov 5 23:23:37 2003

Tom,
> > > > >
> > > > > I've always been interested in how the lead arm folds in the
> > > > baseball swing? Would you say that hands hitters fold there
> > > > lead arm differently then good rotational hitters. Years ago when
> > > > my Son was young I was very dissapointed with how he finished
> > > > the swing.....meaning it didn't look like mine. For a while I
> > > > surmized that in order to get to that position there must be
> > > > something going on in the swing that caused it, thus we spent
> > > > many hours addressing what I thought was a problem. Then
> > > > about a year ago I discovered that maybe his differences were
> > > > actually a strength, so I let him do what he felt was natural (even
> > > > though it appeared funny to me). Low and behold the kid went
> > > > off at the plate. Many great hitting instructors will look at follow
> > > > through as a sign of what occured earlier in the swing, I've done
> > > > that a lot more lately and now percieve that my Son had it right all
> > > > along. This really was my motivation for putting both our swings
> > > > up. I think my way could be incorrect, but I can do it his way...it's
> > > > just so foreign for at first. If you look at my swing watch how the
> > > > the lead arm folds, it's different than mine. Does this make
> > > > sense and do see any relevence in the follow through with how
> > > > the arms finish, particularly with the elbow fold? Look it how
> > > > deep the ball get's in on my Son and how more in front my hit is.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Coach C
> > > >
> > > > Coach
> > > >
> > > > These are all very nice swings.
> > > >
> > > > I asssume you are talking about the difference between you and
> > > > the switch hitter son,is that right ?
> > > >
> > > > I think the main thing that accounts for the difference you see is
> > > > that your son loads better and brings the bat to contact with full
> > > > torso turn.You crash into foot plant a little,If you look at your
> > > > positions at front heel drop,your torso has already started while
> > > > your sons is still back.Then you have to disconnect early with
> > > > more arm extension making contact more out front and a
> > > > somewhat low follow through with earlier roll,but not bad for an
> > > > old guy(hahaha).
> > > >
> > > > Look at the clips at Nick's youthbaseball page and compare both
> > > > of you to the open side shots of righties.The pros keep the
> > > > hands/torso back even longer(more x-factor) and bat is cocked/
> > > > centered back more for them than your son.It's a spectrum.
> > >
> > > As usual I've done a poor job of explaining myself, however thanks for the compliments. In regards to the lead elbow. It seems to me that pure rotational hitters have mastered the art of always having the lead elbow point down from beginning to end in the swing, despite the fact that the lead shoulder elevates up during upper body tilt. During the follow through the lead elbow generally kicks back, recipricating the scap load that occured by the back elbow from launch. I may never be able to exlpain this to you the right way, but an extreme case of this would be how one handles the inside pitch. "We pull arms in (across the chest), not throw hands or barrel out. This would encourage the lead elbow to stay pointed down. The key point is that if the elbows work properly, the shoulders are freed up to rotate with great force. My Son goes high through the ball (sometimes too much), but has a low finish. When you watch my Son and Me swing, watch has easily his upper body rotates from beginning to end, it's much more free than my rotation. His rotation sometimes is so extreme that I swear he's going to cork-screw right through the ground. Ted Williams had this sort of freedom and his lead elbow always pointed down. If you don't follow me here, then I'll have to show another clip somehow.
> > >
> > > Thanks Tom,
> > >
> > > Coach C
> >
> > Coach
> >
> > I just went through about 8 of my favorite hitters from Garrett Anderson, Bonds, Bagwell, Giambi etc etc and not one of them has their lead elbow pointing down. Am I misunderstanding your point?
>
> Teacherman-
>
> That is my experience as well.The lead elbow elevates("works up a little") by internal rotation just after the back elbow starts to "slot" which permits torquing.The lead elbow elevates/gets "on plane" and stays firm/elevated through contact.Epstein's "weathervaning" is the feel on the approach to contact after launch that depends on the spine angle(and how much lead arm is off chest) you have set at launch to match the plane.High ball,lead arm up off chest more(especially for inside),lead elbow(still firmly internally rotated/elevated/stable) feels like it relatively "works down".Independent of this you can flex at the elbow (still elevated/internally rotated/"on plane") to hook the handpath on the approach.

Tom/Teacherman

You are correct the elbow elevates, but it folds so as to always point down after contact. All of the greats do this. This fold is what sets swing plane with the shoulder plane. The rear elbow will slot properly if the lead elbow is taught to fold properly. Someone you should watch is Lance Berkman...it's very clear, but all the others do it. If you can master the fold, you set the swing plane with the shoulder plane. Tom I'm surprised you haven't caught that. For the record I am not doing it my video clips, but when I do it's 100% rotational. Please review your MLB clips.

For the record the reason the lead elbow works up (not the fold) has to do with the body tilt. If I stand flat footed, no bend in legs, the bat will parralel the ground and the lead elbow will work perpendicular with the ground, not up. However, in order to get on plane with the ball the body must tilt 10 to 20 degrees. This is why girls softball hitters swing level with the ground, because the ball is coming up......not down as in baseball. The lead elbow that goes up is only doing so because of body tilt, but this has nothing to do with the elbow fold.

Thanks,

Coach C