Posted by: Bart () on Sat Jul 26 09:24:52 2003

I am aware that the better ones are supposed to initiate the swing with shoulder rotation, but it seems many use the pull the knob que such as Bonds and Delgado, people such as Mr. Lau Jr believe that initiating with the shoulders slows down the swing and that the hands are faster. What are your guys thoughts
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> No, the swing is initiated with the hips. As far as pulling the knob, well, it depends on what you mean by that. Many or most pull the knob instructors are chasing something close to this: http://www.quickhands.net/pics.html
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> And this would be the opposite of what Bonds etc does. When he "pulls the knob" late in the swing it is to decrease the radius of the swing not make the hand path more linear. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/gallery/bonds/flash.htm
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> Nyman has a very clear understanding of this and I believe Mankin refers to it as the arcing handpath.

it's important to understand the chain of events in the swing...however, this understanding should NOT be used to overemphasize a particulat link....

the chain: stride, hands back & bat cock, toe touch (with bat uncocking & hips starting to rotate), achieving torque position, swing (elbow in slot, lag position, etc).....

danger: taking a statement like "the swing is initiated with the hips" to mean that it would be good to emphasize training of the hips to "initiate" the swing....while technically the hips start before the hands in ONE PART OF THE SWING, if you try to focus on this part of the swing only, disaster will occur.....in order for the "hips to intiate" properly, you have to look back to the preceeding links....proper bat cocking/uncocking will AUTOMATICALLY produce Jack's "moving knob towards catcher" thing,which will in turn produce the proper torque position....

another example: Epstein tries to artifically train the torque position, whereas if he were to focus on the preceeding elements of the swing his students would achieve the desired result with much less effort....

one last comment....rotation = top hand pushing the knob....linear = bottom hand pulling the knob.....