Posted by: JOhn (quarters23@hotmail.com) on Sat Oct 12 15:44:16 2002

I am sure this has been discussed in great detail in the past so if you would like to direct me to that discussion or add to it please feel free. My question is regarding the 'rise ball'. Does the baseball actually begin its movement towards homeplate on a straight line and then begin to rise? Or is it a perception of the naked eye, because of leaning backwards and the particular release point the ball seems to move upwards?
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> > > > John,
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> > > > To make a ball rise it would have to spin backward, toward the thrower, with enough velocity to make it overcome the pull of gravity. A base ball thrown 100 mph over 55 ft will drop 2.61 feet.
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> > > > It is physically impossible for a human to spin a ball enough to make it rise. Overhand is the way to make the ball spin backward the most. It must spin from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock and it can't be done. It certainly can't be done in softball where the myth of the "rise ball" is most prevalent.
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> > > > Scientist, who know a ball can't rise think that the most that can be done is make the ball not drop as much. Batters expect the ball to drop a certain amount. When it doesn't it "looks" to them like it rose.
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> > > > The "rise ball" does not rise. People think it rises because the softball fast-pitch is the only ball in baseball or softball that is thrown with speed that ends up, when caught, at a point higher than the release point.
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> > > > F. J.
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> > > F.J.,
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> > > Thanks for the quick response! I appreciate it very much, however, I am wondering if you could direct me to the peer reviewed scientific literature that states these claims (i.e., a ball cannot rise under normal conditions). Thanks again.
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> > > John
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> > F.J.,
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> > This statement obviously came from somewhere, if you could direct me to this resource that might be helpful as well: "To make a ball rise it would have to spin backward, toward the thrower, with enough velocity to make it overcome the pull of gravity. A base ball thrown 100 mph over 55 ft will drop 2.61 feet." ---Thanks.
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> > John
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> > > John,
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> The science is all over the place. Look in a book called "keep your eye on the ball." It has a section on this very subject. Even gives you the formula.
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> The horizontal movement of the ball has no impact on it's vertical movement. A ball drops at the same rate if dropped or thrown. A ball thrown 100 mph and a ball dropped from the same height as the release point, will both hit the ground at the same time. This was the same experiment done from the leaning tower in Italy a few hundred years ago. The formula for this is common for high school physics students. I just can't think of it right now but if you look for it, it's easy to find.
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> I have read scientific data about seeing and hitting and have talked to the scientist who do the experiments. This fact about a ball rising is commonly understood. It's so common that it's a "given" and hardly discussed in serious papers about seeing and hitting. Look in any physics book or ask a physics teacher. This information is common knowledge to any one outside the softball community.
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> Incidently, you will find that many coaches get their information from T V announcers who will say anything to fill air time. You will also find that ex player-announcers are the worst at making the game more complicated. I think they feel that they have to know all the intimate details of the game and they don't. You will notice that even TV announcers do not talk about the "riseing fastball" any more and they are the biggest idiots in the world. god, can any body shut Tim McCarver up?
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> F. J.

How do explain fastpitch softball catchers having problems handling the so called 'Rise ball' even after they are the ones who called for it? Many feel the ball jerks up.