Posted by: Jack Mankin (MrBatspeed@aol.com) on Tue Feb 27 14:32:37 2007

&#61656; >>> this explains what Peavy calls linear part of handpath. <<<
>
> Hi Tom
>
> Where in Griffy’s hand-path would Peavy call linear? It is clearly not from contact through the extension of the back-arm as the plot-lines of his hand-path shows.

Jack,

What Peavy thinks is pretty clear in that link.

My thinking is that what he calls "linear" is prior to "launch" so it is actually involved in creating a better load prior to the connection or transfer mechanics necessary to launch the bathead which does not hapen until the center of mass of the bat gets outside of the arc of the handpath which is close to the "lag" position.

This would be well after what you have described as launch/when shoulders star to "turn".

Biomechanically. I think the shoulders are tilted, as opposed to turned which lets them get driven efficiently/adequately quickly by the unwinding of the torso. Turning shoulders actively causes "rushing"/suboptimization of torso coil.

This may sound confusing or like a fictitious distinction, but experince from golf would argue that there are at least 2 very different ways of connecting the shoulders to the torso and hips that can work in golf, but only one of them can work to produce the quick adjustable hitting swing, and it is the one where the shoulders are not turned actively (so- called 2 plane swing, see Jim Hardy THE PLANE TRUTH FOR GOLFERS.
>
> Would you agree that the demonstration of linear mechanics in this clip is about the hand-path Peavy teaches? -- http://www.quickhands.net/pics.html

I thnk Peavy is describing a high level mlb swing wiith his "linear" portion being poorly understood loading which is better described as you have as prelaunch THT and THT at launch.

THT at launch, however, in my opinion is creating the last quick part of torso unloading which does not reverse and start driving the shoulder/arms/hands link until well after the shoulders have started "turning" or more accurately "tilting" so as to resist oening with the hips, thereby producing yet more torso stretch/load.

CHP is not necessary until bathead launch. swing would progress through

-prelaunch tht is when bat starts acceleration backward/uncocks/untips and body starts to coil/separate hips and shoulders -tht at launch is last quick additional coil as well as formation of matching swing plane by shoulder "TILT" not turn, or feeling of turning everything at once as you have described it.This initially creates MORE torso load stretch which reverss/unloads quickly with -CHP/connection which is necessary as bathead gets out of arc of handpath.

That quick hands thing is just linear disconnection that prevents ongoing load/lets the transmission slip. <<<

Hi Tom

After reading your post, we may have differences in how we see the swing, or maybe just differences in how we describe the same thing. Let us start with your first couple paragraphs.

##
You state, “My thinking is that what he calls "linear" is prior to "launch" so it is actually involved in creating a better load prior to the connection or transfer mechanics necessary to launch the bathead which does not hapen until the center of mass of the bat gets outside of the arc of the handpath which is close to the "lag" position.”

This would be well after what you have described as launch/when shoulders star to "turn".
##

Other than the slight linear movement of Bonds’ body during the stride, I see no linear movement in his upper-body mechanics during PLT or THT that accelerate the bat-head through the lag position in this clip -- http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/Bonds01.mpeg -- Can you point out where, and what, Peavy may be referring to? It appears to me that his hands and his bat-head stay in circular paths even during PLT before shoulder rotation was initiated.

##
You state, “Biomechanically. I think the shoulders are tilted, as opposed to turned which lets them get driven efficiently/adequately quickly by the unwinding of the torso. Turning shoulders actively causes "rushing"/suboptimization of torso coil.

This may sound confusing or like a fictitious distinction, but experince from golf would argue that there are at least 2 very different ways of connecting the shoulders to the torso and hips that can work in golf, but only one of them can work to produce the quick adjustable hitting swing, and it is the one where the shoulders are not turned actively (so- called 2 plane swing, see Jim Hardy THE PLANE TRUTH FOR GOLFERS.”
#

I must disagree for the baseball/softball swings. Once again, referring to the Bonds clip, I would say his shoulders are rotating around a preset tilted axis after PLT and continuing through THT. I see no evidence that his “actively” rotating his shoulders produced “rushing” or a slower unwinding of the torso. – Would you say we see the role of the shoulders differently in the swing or just describing it differently.

Jack Mankin