Posted by: RQL () on Tue Oct 9 08:27:27 2001

Jack, from your various materials and postings, I have concluded that you are misguided on this topic.
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> > > > > Some of your ideas I agree with, for example, the circular hand path. As far as top hand torque is concerned, I simply do not understand it. I saw your tape (borrowed from a friend)and I think I will buy it, because I do see the potential for me understanding top hand torque & maybe even agreeing with it.
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> > > > > But back to the subject at hand. It seems that you object to the concept of throwing the hands at the ball under the misguided notions that (a) the hands/bat will be thrown in a "linear" direction and that (b) the hands will somehow jump out ahead of the lower body & energy will be lost.
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> > > > > Neither notion is correct. If throwing the hands can be a useful cue to some hitters (and there are some major leaguers who use that cue), they can throw the hands in a circular motion. For example, if you were to take a basketball and throw it in a side-arm motion (using both hands), the hand path would/could be quite similar to the circular hand path of a baseball swing. Throwing the hands does not automatically equate to throwing in a straight line.
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> > > > > There is no merit in the notion that throwing the hands somehow causes the hands to jump ahead of the hips, the hands slow down, the hips catch up & enery is lost.You yourself have said that everything rotates in unison. Believe me, Jack, if the hands are "thrown",the hips will move along in tandem. Take a stride and try throwing the hands, bat, whatever without letting the hips rotate. You really have to try hard in order for the hips NOT to come along with the hands.
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> > > > > Sincerely
> > > > RB,
> > > > Did you read about the yo yo analogy, as soon as you take your hands off that circular path, the bat slows down, well i agree for outside pitches that you need to throw the back arm at the ball but for pitches middle in you shouldn't extend toward the pitcher, it seems to me that with the lead arm straight (as jack and I prefer)it is impossible to throw your hands at the ball because your whole body is moving in a circular motion, and it seems that you would need bend in both arms to provide the power for throwing your hands at the ball, which is why that is a linear mechanic. I hope I cleared it up for you and showed you the right way.
> > > > Jeff
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> > > A baseball swing has nothing to do with a yo yo. This subject came up in the spring on my son's 13-14 yaer old team. The coach was trying to teach the kids to "throw" the bat at the ball. I was skeptical. At a work out, we had the kids "swing" a soccer ball 10 feet from a wall. The idea was to see how long it took the ball to reach the wall with the kids simply "swinging" but letting go of the ball. Then we had the kids, with the same motion "throw" (and let go) of the ball. With this method , on average the ball reached the wall about 20 per cent quicker. That doesn't necessairily mean the imparted 20 per cent more force, but it was obvious they did impart MORE force by thinking "throw". We also filmed the kids (side view) throwing the ball, "throwing" the bat and simply "swinging" the bat. In all cases, much to my surprise, none of their "swings" or "throws" resembled "linear". I'm not claiming this experiment as science, but I saw with my own eyes that "throwing" the bat at the very least does NOT result in a "linear" swing, and on the other hand the data seemed to suggest that batspeed increased. I'll leave it at that. You can stick your head in the sand and come up with all kinds of excuses , analogies, etc so as to not complicate your nice, neat model of a baseball swing. Or, you can do your own experiments and see for yourself. What is important is that your viewers out there can understand that this concept is at least looking into. (and it's not exactly a new concept simply because it conflicts with your model. Do you want to learn, or do you want to teach what you think you know. I had my say, do with it whatever you want. Good bye
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> > Hey RB
> > I take it you haven't practiced the mechanics taught on this site, well i have and im hitting the ball with authority now, but there is a big difference in throwing and hitting, in hitting you need force behind the ball, as jack stated on middle in pitches your back arm should be in the power L position, so If you just throw your hands at the ball like you threw the soccer ball you wont have any force behind the bat, So If you want your son to perform at his peak you should get these mechanics down
> > Jeff
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> My son is a perenial all-star, & even on his AABC & AAU teams he stands out.He has been working out with the varsity team (he's a freshman) and he will be a starter for sure. With an alumimun bat he can hit the ball 450 feet & with a wood bat he can hit the ball 400 feet. So my son is doing pretty good. Good for you that you studied Jack's principles,and if you don't want to change because what you have is working for you, that is also good. Just don't preach to me just because I don't subscribe to 100 per cent of Jack's theories. I didn't come to this site to try to convert any one and you are taking this thing much too personally. I had a theory that is consistent with what major leaguers have said, and I offered something to back it up. You can take it or leave it, I don't give a hoot. Now I can see why so many newcomers at this site come and go. This site doesn't give a chance to anyone to try Jack's theories or buy his tape because all of the nonsense scares people away. A handfull of you talk with each other about top hand torque, and no one is willing to discuss anything else . You either ignore anything that doesn't fit your model, or you bash it. You can have the last word if you choose, because I won't respond to your nonsense anymore. Just like all of the other newcomers have done, I'm outta here.
>>RB,I have been on the site for 2 years and have had other opinions than this site.However I try my theory's personally off a tee as a hobby.I can say that some of Jack's ideas have changed the way I think about the swing.It took frame by frame video for me to see that I was doing something different than I thought I was.Now the throwing of the hands was a thread I posted a while back you may want to look back and find it.I used the cue 20 years ago in college and it helped me be 1st team all american div. 1.Palmeiro also uses it."clear the hips and throw the hands".This is a cue though and I think it is torque being applied early by the hands that have already been put into the chp by the shoulder rotation that feels like your throwing them and therefore it works at least for me and Palmeiro.As long as the lead arm stays connected to the lead shoulder in the swing the feel of throw well not bring it out of the chp and you get more speed because torque is being applied correctly.Why many do not like it here is the idea of throwing comes with no connection to lead shoulder turn before it,see there are events in the kinetic chain between hips and hands and if you teach that only you may very well get separation in arms from shoulders,however if you can keep it all together and use it as a cue I think it can speed up shoulder rotation since it brings to mind fast twitch muscles.