Posted by: rql () on Sun Jan 3 16:56:04 2010

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> Hi Jack,
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> I know that Mike Epstein is a well respected instructor of "rotational" hitting mechanics with many successful students, but there is a video presentation on the homepage of his website that I believe illustrates the important differences between he and you. The video begins with A-Rod and then moves on to a college player. It describes "rotational" hitting as hitting with a stationary axis, and makes no mention of the handpath. I guess the assumption is that if the axis is stationary, the handpath will rotate or be circular. When I carefully view the video of the college player, I see several flaws or weaknesses that create a mostly linear handpath even though his axis appears stationary. From "launch" to "lag", the hitter swings his back elbow under, "slides" the bat forward, and creates little acceleration of the bat barrel early in the swing. As a result, in the "lag" position, the hitter's hands (and elbow) are too far forward. From the "lag" position to "contact", the hitter shows little shoulder rotation and extends his hands forward to generate batspeed. This is apparent in the change in his back arm angle from about 90 degrees to about 130 degrees. Also, the hitter does not rotate his front foot and his front knee locks out long before contact, forcing his hands into a linear path.
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> When I see the videos of MLB players that you highlight, it is clear that this hitter's swing is different from theirs. My basic knowledge of physics and mechanics tells me that there is no way that this hitter can generate the batspeed, especially early batspeed, that he would generate with the mechanics that you describe, as used by the MLB players. So clearly, it's not just about the axis, it's about the handpath and the body mechanics that create a CHP. <<<
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> Hi Cfs
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> I have not studied the student's swing you describe. However, those mechanics would conform to the principles Mike conveyed to me in person and in his writings. As you point out, Mike and I have very similar views regarding the lower-body mechanics that generate the body's rotation about a stationary axis. But we differ greatly on upper-body transfer principles and mechanics that converts the body's rotational momentum into bat speed.
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> When Mike and I first met at a Baseball Convention in the mid 1990s, the concept that energy for the swing was derived from the rotation of the body about a stationary axis, rather than the body's forward progression, was not accepted by most hitting authorities. Mike was genuinely surprised when I fully agreed with him. Our agreements were short lived however as it became apparent we had significant differences in how that energy was transferred into bat speed.
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> To paraphrase Mike, he basically stated (and demonstrated) that the arms should extend completely by pulling the knob of the bat to the ball with the bat barrel fully trailing. That any angular displacement of the bat barrel would result in less bat speed. At full arm extension, the wrists snap the barrel out to the ball resulting in tremendous bat speed.
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> Although in our meeting, he completely discounted my CHP principle, I have heard that in his later writings he now accepts that in high level mechanics, the hands do take a circular rather than a linear path. This may be true but as your description of his student's swing points out, a good CHP is not exhibited in his final product.
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> If I had to name the key difference in what Mike and I teach, it would be the role of the lead-arm in the swing. It is mainly the use of the lead-arm that determines whether or not the resulting hand-path is productive in generating bat speed. Below are quotes from Mike's writings that describe his view of the role of the lead-arm.
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> "Having the lead arm extended at the start of the swing makes it very difficult for a hitter - especially a young one - to stay inside the ball, and violates one of my three "core" hitting movements. Pre-extension of the arms has doomed many a promising hitter."
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> "Having "bent" elbows doesn't really have as much to do with the plane of the swing as it does being able to correctly stay inside the ball. Another reason is that you want the triceps from BOTH arms to be in position to extend through the ball at contact. If the hitter pre-extends at the launch position, he will only be in position to extend with one arm, not two, diminishing his power potential."
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> "Another reason is that you want the triceps from BOTH arms to be in position to extend through the ball at contact. If the hitter pre-extends at the launch position, he will only be in position to extend with one arm, not two, diminishing his power potential."
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> I have stressed many times that in order to produce a productive CHP, the angle of the batter's lead-elbow must remain constant from initiation through contact. Allowing a bent lead-elbow to extend approaching contact will: (1) straighten out the hand-path (2) kill the "hook" in the hand-path (3) causes both hands to apply a forward force on the handle -- no BHT.
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> Keeping the lead-elbow at a constant angle during the swing is one of the key provisions we are incorporating in the design of our Rotational Training Vest we are working on. The vest is being designed to promote the push/pull of the elbows and forearms during rotation rather than the extension of the elbows. Below are a few video clips that support this theme.
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> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MrBatSpeed#p/u/3/vS3HTHXspmk">4 Good Hitters - Lead-arm</a>
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> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98mVxe1lBKU&feature=channel_page">4 Good hitters - Back-arm</a>
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> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MrBatSpeed#p/u/13/4gRiRiTvbCU">Rose - The "Hook" & BHT</a>
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> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MrBatSpeed#p/u/2/_C2qF8d-BAI">No "Hook" or BHT</a>
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> Jack Mankin

jack I was watching a clip of rocco baldelli,hitting a homer on a inside cornerand up strike.It is a good clip as it shows both front and side profile of same swing,you get to see the adjustment of in and out as well as the up and down.Anyways what I noticed was that on this extreme pitch the lead arm did not get set as I saw it until near the end of tht,or that rear elbow was about 1/2 way down and the bat had traveled a good ways maybe 50 degrees or more from initiation behind the head.Interesting is that though their is a big bend and adjustment in the lead arm,it really is mostly all done quite early in the swing,it looks like he is so tied up on the pitch and he made this arm adjustment late to draw in tight but really it is quite early before much shoulder rotation is happening.You see in the stride and load how his lead arm is stretching back to connection but not perfectly straight,this is his comfort load position from which he adjusts to.I wonder if on the really away pitch where he will have a completely straight arm stretched across his chest in order to reach the away pitch will it be set by mid tht bat position or earlier or later.
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