Posted by: () on Mon Nov 15 12:53:50 2004

>>> He(Adair) states in his book that the body moves forward about 18 inches at 7 mph during the swing. (not before rotation, but during the swing).
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> > > > > > I have third edition. '18 inches' was cut and '7 mph' was changed to '6 mph' in it
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> > > > > > I'd like to ask you about your phrase '(not before rotation, but during the swing)'. Isn't it your misunderstanding of his theory? <<<
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> > > > > > Hi Marlin
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> > > > > > No, there is no misunderstanding. I have discussed this very point with him in phone calls and by mail. In a paper I sent him, I stated that batters might stride forward as they prepare to swing. However, their forward motion ceased before rotation and they rotated around a stationary axis. He stated that was impossible. For a batter to develop the needed kinetic energy for the swing there must be forward movement of body mass during the swing. He then went on to state in a letter to me that any batter who rotated around stationary axis could not generate enough energy to hit a ball past second base.
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> > > > > > I am not saying that he still holds that view. However, that was his view in 1990 as expressed in his book and during our phone discussions and was also stated in his letter to me.
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> > > > > > Jack Mankin
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> > > > > Thank you for answering me.
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> > > > > Reading your post and his book, i still think the definition of the swing are different between you and Adair. I guess he regards the stride as a part of the swing and i think his model explains linear transfer method very well.
> > > > > But he may not know the rotational method. I was a little surprised.
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> > > > > Thank you
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> > > > I doubt Adair has actually studied hitters. While you can have weight shift, translation move, you become rotational as the stride ends (toe touch). You can agrue if this translation move provides more energy, but you can't deny it works. It does work, but you must stay coiled during the translation move (not swinging) and then uncoil at the end of the stride (swing).
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> > > > This is the same agruement of the swing being a combination of weight shift and rotation. You can be very rotational at the end of the stride (weight) and establish a rotational axis (swing) at the end of the striding action.
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> > > > And what we are talking about is the work off the backside that causes the mass to move forward, the stride doesn't really move the mass forward.
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> > > > What we have is a problem with a misunderstanding of when the swing begins. You are not swinging during weight shift or the translation movement, you swing at the end of the movement (become rotational). You can lump the weight and translation movement into the loading portion of the swing (some might call it coiling). Just like someone might load without a translation movement. the translation movement becomes part of the loading and unloading cycle. It's just a different way of creating energy for the swing.
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> > > > The real swing starts at toe touch (heel drop), unloading, regardless of what you do to prepare the swing. Stride or no stride they still use the same sequences and achieve a rotational axis.
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> > > > There is so much talk about staying back and just rotating, that it's believed weigh shift doesn't work. When in reality it works just as well, just fewer hitters have a pronounced weight shift (mass moving forward), and even fewer right handers have such a move. You see it in lefty's moreso then righties.
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> > > > Your not a linear hitter because of your weight shift or translation move, which can be called a linear move, you are linear because of your transfer mechanics (not being rotational at the end of the stride). I think this site has debated this issue many times about the definition of linear and rotational. What is being overlooked is the fact the real swing doesn't begin until toe touch (heel drop). You can still be a rotational hitter, however we want to define rotation. But' by the definitions used at this site rotational vs linear has to so with transfer mechanics.
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> > > > So Adiar is wrong, you don't move forward during the swing. You move forward prior to the real swing. Anybody who has studied hitters or hitting knows this to be true.
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> > > You said it twice. "The swing doesn't start until toe touch (heel drop)". What do you mean? Toe touch and heel drop are two different times. The swing can't start twice.
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> > considering that the time between toe touch and heel land ranges from .0167 to .033, and considering that the reference point of the "start" of a swing might slightly differ from someone else's reference point, i think, teacherman that you might be splitting hairs.....
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> When you have .4 of a second or less to decide if to swing and then swing, I see no hair splitting going on.

first of all you don't have .4 seconds to decide, uou have.2 seconds to decide....and secondly you miss the point...the issue is definition of when the swing starts, and everyone has their own definition of when it starts...you are splitting hairs and the hair splitting has nothing to do with the reaction time of .2 seconds.....