Posted by: tom.guerry (tom.guerry@kp.org) on Sun Nov 2 09:30:14 2003

> Hi All
> > >
> > > This thread is continued from a Oct 31 post
> > >
> > > >>> For a good explanation on the difference between
scapula loading and counter rotation see the following
> > > >
> > > > http://www.setpro.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=
get_topic;f=34;t=000046
> > >
> > > As seen in this thread I have a slightly different take from
Paul Nyman on this overall issue.Unfortunately this gets into the
guru wars so be careful (I am by no means a guru,but I
aggravate them quite well on occasion.I may be dangerous,but I
don't claim to be an expert.Reader beware.Insert your desired
disclaimer here).
> > >
> > > I believe more than scap loading is necessary to connect
well and prevent dragging.I also believe some degree of
"counter rotation" of the TORSO is necessary,because without
SOME (not a lot) you can not rotate around around a stable axis
effectively.I do NOT,however think you define "counter rotation"
as turning the SHOULDERS back via twisting the top of the
spine significantly back.You do have to turn/coil the lower/mid
TORSO some.After an overall SLIGHT inward turn,the torso has
to turn/continue back a little as the stride leg goes out and the
hips stretch open.This can/should be done with a minimum of
displacement,and certainly the head should not have to turn
back.It(torso turns back as hips open-"counter-rotation") is
observable in my experience of many hitters with high resolution
video.It is easy to/should be "felt" as "winding the rubber
band"(cue associated with Epstein which irritates some
gurus)as the scap loads during the early forward portion of the
stride.It is seen well on the guerrero clip.Hank Aaron said "you
have to coil,but don't take a backswing"
> > >
> > > In addition to loading the back scap and keeping it loaded,
as the back elbow drops primarily via external rotation
(synchronized with external rotation of the stride leg for good
coiling/loading)the back arm also needs to be stable in the
shoulder socket.The arm(not scap) should not adduct or flex,or
there will be disconnection and bat dragging as the back elbow
slides out of the slot forward to the belly button.
> > >
> > > The sequence requires the synchronized back arm and
lead leg external rotation immediately following scap load/
TORSO counterrotation, and then well coordinated elevation of
the lead elbow VIA internal rotation to create a stable shoulder/
arm/hand ("box") configuration to prevent dragging with
launch.This phase between torso counter-rotation/scap load on
the one hand and "drop and tilt" on the other creates the first part
of "prelaunch" tht which keeps the hands back,keeps the body
loading,but without any further/excessive counter-rotation/
backswing.
> > >
> > > This is the same sequence for the most part up to this
point as in the overhand throw.Some scap load/counter-rotation
is followed by "stepover" and uncocking of the hip/arching of the
back before the torso turns or the head comes forward as it
does in throwing(head forward is an additional phase in
throwing,head stays back in hitting). <<<
> > >
> > > Hi Tom
> > >
> > > When I developed terms to describe mechanical principles
of the swing, I was working with a physics lab. Therefore, those
mechanical terms (THT, CHP, BTH) from my study were derived
from the forces acting on the bat that caused the bat-head to
accelerate. Although some coaches find it better to describe
mechanical principles by the body and muscle groups that
supply those forces, I must admit that I have little to no expertise
in that field.
> > >
> > > From my perspective, the “loading” of a muscle group was
to prepare the muscles to do work – as when a basketball player
squats to load the muscles in preparation to jump. Along this
same line, it seems that “scap loading” would PREPARE the
body and limb muscles to whip the elbow (and arm) forward to
throw a ball. But as I interpret references to scap loading in the
baseball swing, the actual loading of the scab is used to do
work, such as accelerating the bat-head back into the plane of
the swing. It seems to me that the scap would not be loading to
whip the elbow (and arm) forward as in the throwing action. In
the baseball swing, once the elbow lowers to the batter’s side it
remains there through contact.
> > >
> > > Therefore, the pinching back of the scap would appear to
me as more of a “contraction” of the muscles to accelerate the
bat-head, rather than “loading” in preparation to do work. --- The
same would seem to hold true in the case of an archer pulling
back on a bowstring. The muscles (scap) are contacting to do
work, rather than loading in preparation to do work, as in
throwing a ball.
> > >
> > > Group, your help in bringing me up to speed on this
subject would be appreciated because I certainly do not claim to
be a guru either in biomechanics and kinesiology. Mainly, it
would be really helpful if someone could explain the difference
between “top-hand-torque” (pulling back the top hand toward the
catcher in order to create early bat speed) and, the subsequently
termed, “scap loading.” Most importantly, does “scap loading”
apply different forces to the bat than THT? Or does it merely
describe THT with different terminology?
> > >
> > > Since it is the end of the month and this could lead to an
informative discussion for all, I am starting the new month with
this thread.
> > > Jack my post on scap load did'nt come through to
November it was right before your bottom post here and I would
like to hear some of your thoughts on it ,I have been working
lately on this part of the swing .
> >>
> >> I've slept on the scap load question and have more
clearification in my own mind... Top Hand Torque is the pulling
back of the hands towards the armpit and the pulling on the bat
handle by the top hand much like an archer pulling on his bow.
this technique starts the acceleration of the bathead and
overcomes inertia before launch. the muscles involved in this
action are the rear deltoid of the shoulder complex and the
latissimus of the back. THT can be executed without involving
the scap... however it is highly unlikely that it does. the key is
understanding the scap and making sure that you get
COMPLETE scap contraction before launch in order to maximize
the angular bat path. the term LOAD is incorrect as Jack has
pointed out. just as he used the example of the basketball player
squatting to load to leap upward that is incorrect as the
quadraceps are being stretched prior to contraction of the
leaping action. the quads are NOT being loaded just as the scap
is NOT being loaded. the term loaded i now take to mean being
STRETCHED and being made ready for contraction... what is
being stretched in the scap contraction? the pectoral of the
chest... does knowing this help your swing? i believe yes... the
more information your brain has it can use as you are in the
"zone" during your swing. of course if you don't practice the feel
of the scap contraction by isolating it during practice(while you're
conscious of it vs being unconscious of it during a game
swing)then you may not get the full benefit of that part of the
swing... or not.
> use the bag to put all the pieces together. use video. use
radar. everbody should be able to master the perfect swing with
the tools we have at our disposal... now transfering it to the
game i need some insight on that please! thanks rich

Danger,more speculative detail !

I still think of the scap action in terms of loading.My interpretation
is that Nyman's basic description of the throwing action should
also apply to hitting.The muscles must apply force in a way that
positions the body levers(bones/joint) well,permits sequential
transfer of momentum(conservation of momentum from big
slow parts to small fast moving parts) and adjusts the elastic
properties of the soft tissues so the swing is optimized.He
describes the necessity of "total body eccentris to concentric
muscle action" to do this.This means the muscles are smoothly
stretching and contracting without too much lengthening or
interruption.Eccentric means the muscles are developing force
that resists the ongoing stretching/lengthening before reversing
and applying force while contracting.Theoretically,the muscle
produces force best at the midpint of it's range between fully
stretched and fully contracted.Reversal from stretch to contract
also involves stretch reflexes in the muscle and tendon complex
as well.Good tempo is important for avoiding interruption.You
need to harness all these things just right to power the swing as
much as posssible via elasticity and momentum transfer
because force production alone is too time consuming to
produce the necessary swing acceleration.Momentum transfer
is near instantaneous,and elasticity is quick.

I still think of the loading as a sequence of getting the muscles
on stretch before interrupting this at the right time giving a last
little bit of stretch,then sequential shortening.Hip cock loads the
hip.Scap load loads the upper torso horizontally."rotating into toe
touch" controlled by the synchronized external rotation of the
back arm and stride leg loads the spine by coiling(x-factor) as
the spine also starts to arch fromt he top down.As one part
"loads" it needs to stay loaded while the next loads.So the hip
stays loaded until it finally unloads/uncocks assisted by heel
drop.The front scap also needs to be firmed up loaded at this
time and the back scap remains loaded as the spine/coil maxes
out,then reverses to create launch with good connection.