Posted by: Coach C () on Thu Sep 18 16:19:36 2003

>>> The key element for me is to recognize that when the body is over-active, the hands must make up the difference and catch up (difficult, but it can be done), on the other hand, a quiet body gives the hands more time, but they still can fire. I also don't think we should teach THT, it's the hands way of initiating the swing. Some THT a lot (Strawberry, Julio Franco), while others do/did very little (Nomar, Molitor). While I do agree with a lot of Jacks theories, it is wrong to say that firing the hands is incorrect for all. The key is to fire the hands in balance and that takes practice and good coaching. THT is a none issue to me and runs the risk of hurting more hitters than helping them. <<<
>
> Hi Coach C
>
> I would rephrase your opening statement to say, “The key element for me is to recognize that when the HANDS are over-active, the body must make up the difference and catch up (but not as effective as keeping the hands at the back-shoulder). On the other hand, quiet HANDS gives more time for body rotation to accelerate the hands into a circular path.” --- The hands may be active while staying back at (or coming to) the shoulder as they apply THT to accelerate the bat-head into the plane of the lead-arm. But rotation, not the arms, should accelerate them around toward contact.
>
> But Coach C, I am not sure whether we have a difference in hitting principles or a difference in terminology. You say, “a quiet body gives the hands more time, but they still can fire.” What would you say the hands are doing as they fire? And, if the body is quiet (please explain), are you saying the extension of the arms are firing the hands?
>
> >>> Jack....you and I disagree on one point. The hands should drive the shoulders and body.....I think you believe the body and shoulders bring the hands. That would work for me with a beach ball, but not with a dancing wiffle ball (a lot like a baseball). This debate has been going on in golf for years by the way, so it doesn't mean I'm right...........clearly many disagree, but it works for me. Keep up the good work and I'll keep listening and try to be convinced. <<<
>
> I would agree that an arm swing may be better for slapping the ball behind the runner or hitting dancing wiffle balls, but I disagree that it is best for either the better golf or baseball/softball players.
>
> Jack Mankin
>
> Thanks for your quick response.

I would suggest to you that if one was asked to throw the hands as hard as possible, the body would respond to that action and THT would be created naturally, but if I said let's crank the body with hip and shoulder rotation, the hands would lag. THT in my opinion is, in fact, a hand action, just not directly to the pitcher.....I agree with that statement, but this is natures way of creating more hand speed, it can't be taught effectively in my opinion without emphasizing hand speed. Your analysis of driving past the bag, is in fact an over active body (or the incorrect use of) with the hands trying catch up. Something I want you to see in your video collection is this....measure the distance of the barrel from the rear shoulder after the bat flattens out to be on plane with the lead arm. The distance between the rear shoulder and the barrel is extremely tight (few inches), in fact on high pitches the barrel can actually cross above the shoulder.

Here is my point in all of this.....some hitters dive into the ball, other stay back, some create much more THT than others, but many do it differently, but the one element in all of them is dynamic body balance throughout. Consider the fact pulling may in fact be the problem in hitting, 99.9 percent of hitters I see pull the bat, when in fact shoulder rotation is better and more on plane when the back shoulder pushes the front one out of the way, this to me is proper scap loading. Bonds hitches because he is triggering the rear scap to push. So while I agree with you that shoulder rotation is crucial for bat speed, many have survived with a powerful push swing, which is by far and away the shorterest path to the ball. Lead arm extension (used by many today)is not meant to imply barring the lead arm, but in fact not rolling the hands, a lot of times a change in grip would work almost as well.

In regards to a quiet body giving the hands more time....it keeps coming back to one thing for me. Does the lower half provide stability (platform to swing from) or provide power. It is not good analysis by one to say it does both, so pick one. Many Ramirez is the poster child for my point. His feet and knees are as quiet as I've ever seen in a hitter, same with Garciaparra. Then look at a rookie National League pitcher, zero balance! We've debated these points before, but I have to keep coming back to them because it's been made to complicated.

In a nutshell...THT is grip it and rip it, little top hand torque is a high average manuever, but in any case the body is the foundation. Same thing in pitching by the way........arm speed and body will follow, not the other way around for most.

If you have the time give me your impression of Palmeiro and Giambi. Do they do the same thing or are they different, if they are different, Why. Why is Giambi's body so active, while Palmeiro's is not. This isn't a debate, because I value your opinion, even if I don't agree.....Thanks Jack!

Respectfully,
Coach C