Posted by: Doug () on Fri Sep 19 11:14:13 2003

>>> I would suggest to you that if one was asked to throw the hands as hard as possible, the body would respond to that action and THT would be created naturally, but if I said let's crank the body with hip and shoulder rotation, the hands would lag. THT in my opinion is, in fact, a hand action, just not directly to the pitcher.....I agree with that statement, but this is natures way of creating more hand speed, it can't be taught effectively in my opinion without emphasizing hand speed. Your analysis of driving past the bag, is in fact an over active body (or the incorrect use of) with the hands trying catch up. Something I want you to see in your video collection is this....measure the distance of the barrel from the rear shoulder after the bat flattens out to be on plane with the lead arm. The distance between the rear shoulder and the barrel is extremely tight (few inches), in fact on high pitches the barrel can actually cross above the shoulder.
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> Here is my point in all of this.....some hitters dive into the ball, other stay back, some create much more THT than others, but many do it differently, but the one element in all of them is dynamic body balance throughout. Consider the fact pulling may in fact be the problem in hitting, 99.9 percent of hitters I see pull the bat, when in fact shoulder rotation is better and more on plane when the back shoulder pushes the front one out of the way, this to me is proper scap loading. Bonds hitches because he is triggering the rear scap to push. So while I agree with you that shoulder rotation is crucial for bat speed, many have survived with a powerful push swing, which is by far and away the shorterest path to the ball. Lead arm extension (used by many today)is not meant to imply barring the lead arm, but in fact not rolling the hands, a lot of times a change in grip would work almost as well.
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> In regards to a quiet body giving the hands more time....it keeps coming back to one thing for me. Does the lower half provide stability (platform to swing from) or provide power. It is not good analysis by one to say it does both, so pick one. Many Ramirez is the poster child for my point. His feet and knees are as quiet as I've ever seen in a hitter, same with Garciaparra. Then look at a rookie National League pitcher, zero balance! We've debated these points before, but I have to keep coming back to them because it's been made to complicated.
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> In a nutshell...THT is grip it and rip it, little top hand torque is a high average manuever, but in any case the body is the foundation. Same thing in pitching by the way........arm speed and body will follow, not the other way around for most.
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> If you have the time give me your impression of Palmeiro and Giambi. Do they do the same thing or are they different, if they are different, Why. Why is Giambi's body so active, while Palmeiro's is not. This isn't a debate, because I value your opinion, even if I don't agree.....Thanks Jack! <<<
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> Respectfully,
> Coach C
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> Coach C, my following comments are an observation and not meant to criticize.
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> Keep the body quiet and fire the hands are part of the linear batting principles I taught for far too many years. But, now we just teach two very different concepts of the baseball swing. Therefore it is quite understandable that you would disagree with my rotational batting philosophy on many points.
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> The number one difference between linear and rotational mechanics is defined by the hand-path they produce. Using the arms to throw the hands produces a much straighter hand-path and is, therefore, classified as “Linear Mechanics.” Keeping the hands back and allowing body rotation to sling the hands into a more circular hand-path is a “Rotational Principle.”
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> You stated, “I would suggest to you that if one was asked to throw the hands as hard as possible, the body would respond to that action and THT would be created naturally, but if I said let's crank the body with hip and shoulder rotation, the hands would lag.” You also stated, “THT is a none issue to me and runs the risk of hurting more hitters than helping them.” – I have forewarned in many posts the dangers of a batter with linear mechanics (hands first) attempting to apply THT. It results in serious wrist binds and a nonproductive swing plane. I would strongly suggest that you adhere to your second statement. Teaching a batter to “throw the hands” and apply THT at the same time will not work.
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> Jack Mankin

Jack, Have to agree with most things you have said since I started frequenting this message board, except for the rotational vs linear argument. I like the rotational swing, but feel that there are linear movements in a rotational hitter. The second a hitter takes a stride forward.....is that not a linear movement? Alex Rodriguez is a good example of a great hitter who has linear and rotational movements.

Doug
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