Posted by: () on Tue Apr 22 18:02:03 2003

We all are looking for the right swing mechanics, and most of us here agree that rotational is the way to go. What many don't or won't understand is that successful hitters have a feel for hitting. They have timing and a feel for when to start the swing. They have a feel and idea of what to look for when at bat. They have a feel and understanding of what they can and can't do. They have a feel and understanding of what the pitcher is trying to do. A hitter can have great mechanics, but if he has little feel for hitting, he will struggle. If he has a good feel for hitting he will have success.
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> > > > > > > Doug
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> > > > > > Mr. Obvious just posted. That is why most MLB hitters can't describe what they do. They would be horrible coaches because it comes natural to them. The question is, how do "normal" hitters get that natural feeling? My guess is practice and repetition.
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> > > > > Mr. Noname, When you say most MLB hitters can't describe what they do, is that from personal experience? Have you taken a poll of the MLB hitters and asked them questions on hitting? The only people that I hear saying that are guys that did not play. I wonder why all the hitting coaches in the major and minor leagues are ex players instead of guys that never played? They must all be poor coaches if what you said is true. What is taught that can only be taught by someone who has been there is the mental side of hitting. 4000-5000 AB's will teach a man a lot about hitting that he can pass on to the young players. 0 AB's will pass on 0 experience and a lot of guessing.
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> > > > > Doug
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> > > > That knowledge is called common sense. If MLB players were very good teachers and knew what they were doing, how come we don't see them starting there own hitting schools? I realize that not all of them would desire to start their own hitting schools, but would NONE of them? I don't know of ANY MLB player that sells, or even gives away, hitting lessons. And I mean actual lessons, not just pieces of advice.
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> > > > And that is exactly what hitting coaches do. I, for one do not really believe in hitting coaches. As you pointed out, they are just former MLB players. They don't really know the details of hitting like some "non-players" do (say a guy named Jack Mankin, or even Charlie Lau if you believe his mechanics). Their purpose is to try to give pieces of advice to players that are slumping. They don't have an active role in controling a players swing, and basically, the position "Hitting Coach" is a way for former players to hold on to the game. Most can only give the slumping players, cues that worked for them. If someone actually knew what was going on and could really teach hitting, he would be very well known, and wanted by many teams. In fact, he would probably be promoted to a higher status than hitting coach. When is the last time you heard of a Hitting Coach switching teams? When managers change teams it's a big deal. Why? Because they can affect the teams success. Hitting coaches can't really affect the teams success and therefore no one really cares about them.
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> > > Once again you make reference to what MLB hitters know and what they don't know. Have you ever sat down and talked with a few ex-major league hitters about the swing and the mental aspect of hitting? As far as ex players having their own schools, how about Mike Epstein and Ed Sprague Jr. They are ex major leaguers and now teach. How about Terry Whitfield, Brad Wellman and Joe Rudi in N. California.Do some reserch and you will find out that many ex big leaguers are now teaching hitting.
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> > > Doug
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> > I have listened to Tony Gwynn, possible the best hitter of the 90s, incorrectly describe taking the knob to the ball. That is good enough for me. If the best hitter can't describe it, how can a lesser hitter describe it. I have never once heard a Major Leaguer give any advice besides a simple cue that has been used for years.
> > And, as I said before, if they really were knowledgeable of the swing and able to teach it, they would start their own hitting schools. So you named 5 out of how many Major Leaguers that work wiht hitting. And no offense to Mike Epstien, but I wouldn't really consider him a Major Leaguer. It is a great accomplishment that he did make it, but in all honesty, he wasn't a real good player. In fact, he only figured out the swing AFTER his playing career, when he actually took time to figure things out. That tells me that he really didn't know what he was doing when he was playing.
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> > You keep giving specific examples. I'm talking about in general and especially for the upper level Major Leaguers. I made an incorrect generalization when I said NO Major Leaguers teach hitting. But I stand by my point that the majority of them are just gifted athletically and don't really know what they are doing.
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> > And by the way, you suggest that you HAVE sat down and talked to Major Leaguers about their swings. If neither of us have, then you have your beliefs and I have mine. Or course, I believe mine is right and that I can back it up.
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> > And again I ask if we "normal" people can get the "natural" feeling Major Leaguers have? And if so, how do we do it?
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> You can't. It is called talent and only a few have it. Also, to answer your question about ex major leaguers and their ability to teach. There are a lot more ex players that know how to teach than non players. You say that Mike Epstein's 9 years in the big leagues don't make him a big leaguer. What would you give to have played 9 years in the major leagues? How many non players can you name who know the swing and can teach it? How do you know that they know the swing if you have not played? Mike Epstein had 2,854 AB's in the big leagues. That my friend is called experience.
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> Doug


Well, Tell the Kansas Jayhawks that experience matters. Cause Syracuse just proved (at least in college basketball) that talent is more important. And my point is that being a Major Leaguer does not automatically equal swing knowledge and/or teaching ability.

If you would have read my post completely, you would have seen that I said, "It is a great accomplishment that he did make it, but in all honesty, he wasn't a real good player." I would have given a lot to play nine years in the Majors, but that doesn't mean I can do a darn thing except hit, catch, and throw a baseball. And as HE HIMSELF says, he did not know the swing until AFTER his playing career. All of those ABs of experience sure did a lot of good, huh.

And just to clear things up here, what do you mean by ex-players? Are you just talking about ex-MLB players? Or do you mean any level of baseball. I can name two of what you would probably call "non-players" who know the swing better than ANY Major League player. And those two are Paul Nyman (from SetPro) and Jack Mankin. So what does that say about your precious "experience". They were never MLB players, yet they know and can teach the swing better than ANYONE I've seen.

Experience is only good in your field of work. And as Syracuse proved, it isn't the most important thing. Major League experience will help a person hit Major League pitching. I does not mean they can teach someone else HOW to hit. Think about what you're saying here. If what you're saying is true, then why do we need teachers to get teaching degrees? Why don't they just get a Master's in their field and be automatically able to teach others.

You keep asking me how I if I have ever sat down with a Major Leaguer and talked with them about hitting. I have not, but I have heard them speak about hitting in interviews. Have you sat down and talked with them? And if you did, what did they tell you? I can almost guaruntee that they told you what worked for them. Why? Because they are only concerned about what works for them. If a cue works for them, then they use it. Most do not break down the swing and actually try to figure it out. It's common sense that these things are true. And without a poll of MLB players you can't really prove your point. I can't prove mine directly without a poll either, but I have common sense on my side. Experience is over rated. Ask Kansas, Syracues, Camelo Anthony, Nick Collison, and last years World Series Champs the Anahiem Angels.