Posted by: Graylon (g_dunc@hotmail.com) on Thu Nov 1 11:25:10 2007

> Hi Teacherman
>
> You have presented your observations and conclusions and I have presented mine. The readers can judge for themselves the credibility of each.
>
> Jack Mankin

Jack,

I have a question for you and everyone else involved in this discussion. I'm not a physics major and I don't know all the degrees of separation, so my question will be in dumbed down terms, then what your conversation has been in. Why can't we have both, shoulder tilt and rotation? It appears to me that the shoulders do tilt and that they rotate. The hips start to open while the shoulders resist, causing a stretch and then they fire, tilting and rotating dependent upon pitch location. Yes, the shoulders do catch up because the hips can only rotate so far before they start to decelerate, while the shoulders are still turning fast.

Can't the degree of seperation between hips and shoulders be different for every hitter? Some hitters have a more flexible torso then others, causing more hip rotation prior to shoulders being initiated.

It seems that if we started hip rotation and never created the stretch in the torso we would just be forcing the shoulders to rotate. But if we allowed the hips to rotate while the shoulders try to turn against the rotating hips we would create the torque needed in the torso, we then can begin to tilt and rotate the shoulders.

So, to me it does appear that the hips and shoulders are rotating at the same time, but the hips are leading the way and the shoulders catch up because of deceleration of the hips (hitters with a less flexible torso the shoulders catch up earlier in the process). I also see the shoulders tilting, which I also believe to be important.

If I'm way off base please let me know.