Posted by: Teacherman () on Wed Oct 31 16:26:21 2007

Jack,

Did you factor in that when Rose took his stride he would actually step toward the plate? That would have a huge effect on his body position as he gets square to the plate. I don't have a lot of clips of him but he does it on every clip I have that you can see the feet. Do you have clips that show the entire body. Front view is best.

From what can be seen, it is very clear that in the first few frames there is an upward movement to Rose's lead shoulder. Compare the "path" of the letters on his back in the first few frames to the "path" of the letters on his back toward the middle and end of the swing. The "path" is clearly different. This is the lateral tilt. This lateral tilt at "go" "locks" the shoulders into place as the hands and hips do their work against the resistance of the shoulders. If the shoulders were to rotate, the separation would be poor. It would be sloppy....slack filled. The video clearly shows they stay locked until the hips slow/stop at which time the shoulders continue on. This is not a result of shoulder rotation. This is the effect of the unwinding of the wound rubber band. Without the lateral tilt there is poor winding.....and therefore poor unwinding.

http://www.teachersbilliards.com/hitzone/Rose1.gif

As to Bonds.......you need to study "go". Bonds hips open a large distance before "go". He creates a large amount of separation as the hips and hands work against the shoulders.

Your statement...."when he initiates one he initiates the other" (hips and shoulders) is simply wrong and not found in the video. Not even your own video. Bonds hips were turning forward long before that. It's right in front of you. Determine "go" then count the number of frames that the hips go forward while the hands/shoulders are held back....prior to "go".

P.S. Studying video without knowing the "go" frame first leads to nonsensical conclusions. You will only find "go" by studying the hands.......nowhwere else.

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/library/Bonds5c.gif

Jack,

In your third clip....the Bonds "rotate v tilt" clip, your comments are embarassing.

The lines you draw are not even close to the spine line nor the shoulder line. Are you claiming your little red line and the green line are 90 degrees to each other? Or are you claiming the 90 degree relationship has nothing to do with shoulder rotation. If so, we have another bone to pick. That would be very low quality rotation and not usable in the batters box at high levels.

Why did you rotate Bonds forward to pick his swing plane line....then toggle the clip back to draw it? If it was true shoulder rotation you could draw the spine line....then draw the shoulder line.....and THEN play the clip.....without knowing the eventual swing plane line. You couldn't do that could you Jack?

Look at his torso...his shoulder/spine/arms/hands relationship from launch to contact. Do you really believe there is a 90 degree relationship maintained between the shoulders and spine? Do you really think he's trying to do maintain a 90 degree relationship? That would be happening if shoulder rotation existed. Attempting to keep the swing plane perp to the spine would represent shoulder rotation.

But, in this clip....as in all clips of Bonds and all high level swingers (except maybe on high pitches) there is no perp to the spine relationship maintained at launch. The lead shoulder goes up and the rear shoulder goes down.....not in a "90 degree rotation around the spine" relationship.

Why?

Because that is not the swing plane. The axis of rotation of the barrel, in high level swingers, is the hands. The shoulders and their relationship to the spine has nothing to do with the swing plane. The barrel is turned in the hands. The body supports that with IT'S rotation....notice IT'S rotation (the body's) is separate from the barrel's rotation. The swing plane is not "around the body" it is "in front of" the body.

Jack....check the last frame of the video. Are you saying those lines are still where they should be. If shoulder rotation was occuring, those lines would still line up with their corresponding body parts at that point in the swing. They don't.