Posted by: PatA (headsupsoftball1@aol.com) on Tue Feb 11 15:16:47 2003

Telling your hitters to raise the back elbow compounds a common problem. Whenever the back elbow starts up, it must come down before the ball is hit. The swing then tends to get underneath the ball, which causes the player to pop up or miss the ball altogehter. To form the proper box, the hitter must have the back elbow down with the upper part of the top hand about level with the top of the back shoulder. The hands should be 6 - 10 inches from the body. The elbows should be even.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > TRUE or FALSE?
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > False.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why does Bonds and AROD and Garciapora and Griffey have their back elbows up? Because they want to uppercut? Back elbow up is a more powerful, more connected position IMO.
> > > > ----------
> > > > True. To swing level, especially when the pitcher is throwing a rise then back elbow up is not a good idea.
> > >
> > > Mike-
> > > not clear to me if you are saying that the top hand upper arm should be parallel to the ground - hand and elbow at the same height. If you are saying that that is good, do you call that NOT having the elbow up?
> > > I see coaches who want the back elbow down and their hitters wait with the elbow pointed at the catcher's knees, hands above the elbows.
> > > Can you clarify what you consider up, down, too high, etc.
> > _____-
> > I think the elbows (both) need to be even; in between shoulder level and the waist; the hands however are level with the top of the back shoulder and the elbows are definitely below the hands and shoulder level. Basically the back elbow is already "in the slot" next to the rib cage. Dusty Baker coined the term BOX in his book "you can teach hitting" and in his book he says "an improper box is formed if the back elbow is UP. Youth league coaches commonly make the mistake of telling hitters to keep the back elbow UP." There are pictures in the book and it shows the proper BOX being one >when the elbows are EVEN with each other. Does that clear it up?
>
> I'll have to take another look at Dusty's book. Its been a while.
> It seems clear that you like the back elbow low - already in the slot/next to the rib cage.
>
> If the elbow is high and that position is used to push the bat forward with the top hand, I agree a high back elbow is bad thing. I have seen this taught and shudder when I see it...
> If the back elbow is low, then the upper arm is not internally rotated. Instead it is already somewhat externally rotated. It is also hard to load/pinch the scapula with the elbow down - both advantageous actions.
> Starting from the low position, it is easy for the elbow to work under and past the top hand, leaving the hands behind the elbows early in the swing.
> Do you have a problem with that happening? if so how do you avoid it with a low back elbow? Do you want your hitters to load their scapula? internally rotate the upper arm?


Major Dan
I agree with you on Epstein's arm interpretations. He mentions a "slot", the range that the front elbow works in depending on pitch height. If I understand correctly, on the low pitch, front elbow works more upward, and more level on the pitch up so that the hitter can get "on top", (his words). I can't get this to make physical sense, I get a better feel from planing the lead shoulder, ala Nomar, (one example). In one clip I can plainly see him work the lead shoulder UP and out on the pitch below the belt. this made instant sense to me as soon as I tried it. I also like back elbow up, I don't think that Baker's version of the box is the same as Tom's version.