Posted by: Jack Mankin (MrBatspeed@aol.com) on Sat Sep 8 00:12:42 2001

>>> Hmmmmm -- UCLA, many years ago, did a study and measured the bat speed of numerous college and pro ball players.

With the "knocking knuckles" lined up, speeds of 106 mph were attained.

With the right hand knocking knuckles lined up halfway between the left hand's knocking knuckles and the large knuckles the speeds dropped to about 102 mph -- assume right handed batters...

And, with the right hand's knocking knuckles lined up with the left hand's large knuckles, the speed dropped to about 96 or 98 mph.

Did you all see the recent article that mentioned the highest speeds of the pro's?? (Griffey had the highest, and he has his knocking knuckles almost lined up...)

It turns out that in trying to keep your knocking knuckles lined up, your top hand tends to be in a little weaker position, and the bat tends to drop a little. -- I know several MLB coaches/scouts that advocate a grip that has the top hand knocking knuckles just a little past the bottom hand's knocking knuckle... If you are in high school or younger, pay attention!!

I've got to see for myself how many big boys have their grips loose enough to "turn on the bat..." (Why do they wear gloves and use ALL that pine tar??!!?? So the wrist can slip??!!) If I'm wrong, I'll be back and "eat my hat" -- I love to learn, so I'll sure look into this.

By the way, much of what I've been reading is actually what I see being taught by many of my contacts. You are just using very different language and doing an absulutely terrific job of describing many small, tiny details that most coaches never get into or perhaps even know about. I'd love to hear you and a PHD of Exercise Science or Kines. get into it...! But, you know what? I felt you implied "bad" to some of the "old terms" than was necessary or deserving. --- However, I enjoyed this site...I'll let you know what comes back from my discussions...Later! <<<

Hi Scott and Maximum

"Hmmmmm", those are some very impressive bat speeds when you consider that a 35 oz bat traveling 75 mph at contact can hit a ball over 400 ft (Professor Robert K. Adair, "The Physics of Baseball" -- and also from other studies.) The problem with most swing mechanics is that a good percentage of the bat speed attained is generated after the bat has rotated 20 to 60 degrees past the contact point, which is wasted velocity. But, 100+ mph is still most impressive regardless of where in the swing it occurs --- Scott, if you have a copy of that study, please e-mail it to me. I would like to know the equipment they used and at what point of the swing they took their readings.

Your question regarding pine tar and two gloves is well taken. But, I have many clips of batters with the angle between the wrists at launch is in excess of 100 degrees and some where the top of both hands were almost in-line. At contact the angle between the wrists was less than 20 degrees - something moved or slipped.

One of my favorite hobbies was studying the before-and-during swing mechanics of great hitters in a batting slump. The two most consistent problems I found were (1) not initiating the bat-head cleanly into the swing plane and (2) binds and misalignment of the wrists -- some directly due to gripping too tight with the top-hand.

Scott and Maximum, understanding that the bat must not fly free, what hitting value do you attribute to a tight grip that you would not get from a looser grip---especially the top hand? I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Jack Mankin