Posted by: Teacherman () on Sun Apr 20 17:34:36 2003

Jack,
> > >
> > > In one of the posts that was deleted in the message board disaster, you defined bottom hand torque (BHT) as:
> > >
> > > “A swing mechanic that applies torque to the bat by pulling the bottom-hand back around the top-hand -- as opposed to driving the top-hand past the bottom-hand.”
> > >
> > > And I asked the question, "Why can't it be both?"
> > >
> > > Could you please answer?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > ray porco
> >
> > ray, I'll put in my 2 cents even though the Q was directed to Jack. I disagree with Jack ( I think someone else did as well). Pulling the bottom hand around the top hand doesn't make any sense (maybe a typo by Jack?). If anything, it's the top hand pushing around the bottom. Anatomy....in the CHP, near the end of the circle (actually, it's roughly a half-circle)is also near the point of contact. For a left handed batter, the hands are headed roughly in the direction of the firstbaseman. To contact the mid/os part of the ball, the hands would have to keep headed in that direction. In order for the bottom hand to go around the top hand, the bottom hand would have to attempt to reverse direction, and redirect toward the 2nd baseman!The bathead would be re-oriented, and contact would be made on the INSIDE part of the ball. In other words, an inside-out swing. Surely this is not what Jack had in mind.
> >
> > Why not both? True, up to a certain point, both hands are at work. But near contact, the bottom hand acts as an axis for which the top hand will rotate around & finish the job.By contact both hands might very well start to slow down. When I say the top hand finishes the job I'm talking about the role the hand plays in the final orientation of the bathead.This orientation helps dictate what part of the ball is contacted (is, os, mid) which in turn dictates the field the ball goes to. And I submit that an is pitch hit to the pull field will be harder hit than an is pitch hit to the opposite field.
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> Hi Bart
>
> Below is a post I made earlier on this topic that was lost in the crash. It may add to your discussion.
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> Hi All
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> Well, it appears the term “Bottom-Hand-Torque” has really raised the hackles of some readers. I can only wonder what the reaction to “Top-Hand-Torque” must be. --- I think I can describe BHT in a less than hundred words. But first, a little background on why I defined the mechanic with that terminology.
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> For my study of how energy is transferred in the baseball/softball swing, it was taken as a given that the purpose of all swing mechanics was to accelerate the bat-head around to contact in a predictable plane while attaining maximum velocity in the least amount of time. Before those swing mechanics could be accurately defined, it was first necessary to define the forces acting on the bat that generated bat-head acceleration. Once the forces responsible for the acceleration were defined, then the swing mechanics that most efficiently supplied those forces could be defined.
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> With the aid of high-speed cameras, motion detectors, pressure sensors and a motion-study computer, it was found that there were two forces acting on the bat that generate bat-head acceleration (gravity is not supplied by the batter). One force transferred the body’s rotational energy by the angular displacement of the hands (termed - a circular-hand-path). The second force that accelerates the bat-head was torque (causing an object to rotate by forces applied from opposing direction). In the baseball swing, torque is mainly applied to the bat by the push/pull effect of the hands with a minimal amount supplied by wrist action.
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> Another key finding to come from the study was that two very different types of swing mechanics could apply torque. By far, the most common way to apply torque was for the batter to drive the top-hand past the bottom-hand as the lead-hand slowed. I termed this as linear mechanics because extending the top-hand from initiation produced a straighter hand-path.
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> The second type of mechanic that applies torque to the bat does not have the batter fully extend the top-hand before contact. The top-hand stays back (elbow in “L” position) and torque is applied by having lead-side rotation pull the bottom-hand (and knob) around the top-hand. I termed this mechanic “Bottom-hand-torque” because it occurs at the “hook” in the hand-path where the bottom-hand is circling around a slower moving top-hand (rotational transfer mechanics). --- J and Fernando, this mechanic is shown in slow motion from different angles in my instructional video/dvd “The Final Arc ll”. So thousands of coaches and player do not rely on a verbal definition – they have studied it in action.
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> J, here is my definition --- Bottom-Hand-Torque: “A swing mechanic that applies torque to the bat by pulling the bottom-hand back around the top-hand -- as opposed to driving the top-hand past the bottom-hand.
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> I am open to suggestions for a better term. But the old standbys “quick hands”, swing down”, “hit the ball out-in-front”, “pop your hips” and etc. just did not seem to be able to accurately define the mechanic.
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> Jack Mankin

IMHO, when talking about swing mechanics, you have two parts. The rotation (and whatever it takes to do that) and the connection of the bat to the rotation.

The rotation of the body is relatively simple to do and understand. We can argue different points within it but most people can rotate.

The problems come when you connect the bat to the torso. It is connected with the arms and the question becomes where and how. Where refers to the height of the arms and the position of the hands. It appears to be different from player to player but it is important for one to find the right location for themselves. And the right location is determined by the how. The how is what it takes to keep them connected as you swing and this will play a major role in where you hold them.

The how is also related to this top hand/bottom hand discussion. You have to be able to rotate so there is no slack. In other words, the first movement of shoulder rotation must move the barrel. Not the handle only but the barrel. Too much slack and the barrel doesn't move right away. There is a slight delay. This slight delay is a killer against top pitching. And it is obviously not a quick swing.

It is my contention that as soon as the arms get independently active, you disconnect. The barrel will not come around quickly and efficiently as long as the arms are moving independent of the rotation. In fact, the barrel won't arc out until the arms stop. You have to find a spot where the body can power the swing (I really like Coach C's torso rotation explanation) without this arm movement. The arms should only move if the torso moves them. If they move on their own, the barrel will drag.

Therefore, it is also my contention that, although you feel the energy in the hands on it's way to the barrel, there is little or no pushing of the barrel by the top hand toward the pitcher. This pushing, if it exists, is the beginning of disconnection. If it goes long enough you'll push the elbow right out of the slot. I'm sure you've heard pulling off the ball. Well, it is also possible to push off the ball.

Also, pushing with the top hand is limited as the hands flatten. Flat hands are necessary to match the plane. It is so limited that whatever contribution it offers to batspeed is minimal. What is present in a large degree when the hands are flat, is the pull on the bat, by the lead shoulder going back to the catcher, through the lead arm, as the rotation occurs. Jack calls this bottom hand torque. He calls it this because the barrel is being effected by the pull on the bottom hand against the top hand. However, this pull is actually being generated by rotation. Therefore, the name is tricky. You can feel it in the hands but it is being driven by the shoulder. And, if this pull is truly generated by shoulder rotation and not arm movement, then, bottom hand torque will not lead to disconnection.

I don't like the term, but I understand it. And, I have no better term to offer. But I think the misunderstanding comes from the fact that the pull is coming from the shoulder through the bottom hand, not the hand doing the pulling.
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