Posted by: Major Dan (markj89@charter.net) on Thu Jan 30 11:48:08 2003

What do hitters mean when they refer to staying "inside of the ball" and how does that apply to rotational mechanics.
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> > > > > I think that Teacherman is right in that many people use the phrase to mean what he describes. I think, however, that the majority of instructors mean something else, and I agree with Major Dan that many people know it when they see it but can't describe it (somewhat like the Supreme Court and obscenity).
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> > > > > I have concluded that staying inside the ball refers to keeping the hands and arms connected to the upper body or what Jack calls, and I like his term, transfer mechanics. Learning or teaching transfer mechanics is, to me, the hardest part of the swing mechanic. I also think that it's the quality of their transfer mechanics that distinguishes good hitters from average ones.
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> > > > Dan
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> > > > I hear what you are saying and I think Thorpe says it better than I did. I say the hands are a head of the barrel. You said something about pushing the hands forward. To me those are two different sentences. If you stay connected, like Thorpe says, then IMO, the hands will be ahead of the barrel until contact (pending pitch location and speed). The barrel lags behind and catches up at contact v. the out and around swing the barrel is at the contact position before contact and comes around and forward even more for contact.
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> > > I agree that pushing the hands forward and then snapping the wrists into contact is not the same as rotating the bat and arms with the body into contact. In both cases the hands lead the bat barrel. However the former is disconnected, the latter connected to shoulder turn.
> > > We all here agree that staying connected is a 'good thing'.
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> > > Back to the original question:
> > > Could you describe the 'fence drill' type swing as 'staying inside the ball' ?
> > > If you stay connected, does that guarantee you 'staying inside the ball' ? or can you have a connected swing that is too long or whatever the opposite of 'staying inside the ball' is...
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> > Dan
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> > I think the fence drill and "staying inside the ball" should not be used together. It was probably invented to create an inside the ball hand path but it has led to worse problems (disconnection). Although I like a lot of what Epstein says, his use of the fence drill baffles me. In fact, his description of how to use the upper half doesn't jive with what I think is correct. That being said he does use the pinball flipper example of staying inside the ball and I think that is close. The flipper is connected to the game board and it can only hit the ball with any authority when you let it get "deep". Or, when the ball is between the top end of the flipper (the hands) and the bottom end of the flipper (the barrel).
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> Hi Teacherman:
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> I too like the pinball flipper example, and I think kids understand it. I'm curious as to precisely what Epstein says about using the upper half that doesn't jive for you. I'm always trying to learn, so I'm interested in your observations.

Could you describe the 'fence drill' type swing as 'staying inside the ball' ?
I agree that the fence drill causes disconnection, but aren't you still 'staying inside the ball' ? even though it's not an optimal swing?
If you stay connected, does that guarantee you 'staying inside the ball' ? or can you have a connected swing that is too long or whatever the opposite of 'staying inside the ball' is...
The flipper is a good analogy for rotating the bat into the ball, no doubt. However, can you stay connected and not stay inside the ball? I think you can...