Posted by: tom.guerry (tom.guerry@kp.org) on Thu Jan 30 08:56:39 2003

I just watched the final arc (2nd edition). A couple of questions:
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> > > > > > 1) After top hand torque and the bat goes back to the catcher - what then does the top hand do -- does it push at contact or not? In watching MLB hitters it seems most of them "push with their top hands" through contact. And more times than not the "L" comes out after contact. What is "causing" this to happen?
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> > > > > > 2) Jack says the shoulders turn to 105 degrees. Is that at contact? It looks as though Bonds' shoulders rotate all the was around - 180 degrees, but that is at finish. Jack said something about putting an object under the bottom arm pit - why is that? The MLB hitters I watch, anything under their arm would definitely fall out. When exactly does the bottom hand start pulling? Is it in the position the kids are doing the drills in?
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> > > > > > 3) Lastly, can you be a "rotational hitter" and never use BHT? In other words can I rotate my torso and hips and move the bat in a circular hand path and only use THT or THT be the primary force - especially seen in right handed hitters. Right handed hitters seem to push with the top hand. A-Rod, Big Mac, Sosa, Sheffield.
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> > > > > > It seems to me that whether you are predominatly top or bottom hand dictates your strategy at the plate and your strengths in terms of pitch location. Mike Scmidth in his book talks about being able to be and do BOTH. Is that possible?
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> > > > > In watching Epstein's tape and what he does with his student, it seems as though the emphasis is on top hand push/extension - at least that is what Brandon (the student) -- rather than BHT which is what Mankin and John do with their students. BUT when I watch John's swing (the guy from the Astros), it looks like he has a lot of push with his top hand, even after he iniatiates THT. It was funny to hear that the Astros taught linear mechanics to this guy while he was in their system. I have followed the Astros for a long time and they have never been able to hit.
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> > > > > From watching major league hitters, it appears to me that the ONLY one who is predominantly bottom hand is Bonds; Jeter looks to be linear (inside/out swing). Have any studies been done to indicate which model is best; the top hand push or the bottom hand torque on the same batters using different points of emphasis?
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> > > > I disagree with your analysis of Bonds. The word predominant is what I don't like. He is very able to tighten the hand path to hit the inside pitch and keep it fair but I don't see bottom hand dominance in his other swings
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> > > How does he tighten the hand path? I presume with the bottom hand.
> > > On most of his swings, his hand path is pretty tight. Probably the reason teams do the shift on him.
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> > > On the swings you do not see bottom hand dominance - what exactly do you see. What does he do different that does not make him bottom hand dominant? Bonds seems to tighten the handpath by how much bend he sets up in the front elbow when he forms the box in the tht portion of the swing prior to launch.Look for a contact shot of him hitting the high inside fair homer,and the front elbow stays very bent through contact.
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> > Other hitters arc/shorten the swing radius by pinching the front shoulder blade at or after launch(Piazza for one).
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> > More subtle ways may have to do with a shift of the axis of rotation at or after launch,but this is very hard to analyze with video(?may be inferred from head action?).
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> This hand dominance question is of interest to me. It seems very difficult to calibrate. We can only look at their swing and "see" what we think we see. We can't "feel" what they feel.
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> And, to a top hand dominant hitter, he may need more bottom hand action and once he gets it he's sure he has the "cure all" and all he talks about to everyone is the need for more bottom hand. So, his audience thinks "I need to check out my bottom hand" and they start emphasizing it and create new problems because their bottom hand was just fine to start with. Same thing with the guy that needed more top hand. He found it and all he talks about is the importance of the top hand. Now everyone he talks to checks out their top hand and they create new problems because their top hand was just fine. Which is why hitting is so difficult to teach.
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> I "think" their(hands) importance is equal or nearly equal. I know I've discovered a lazy top hand in my own swing or maybe better said "bottom hand dominance" and it was difficult for me to get the barrel to come around. I should note that I'm right handed at everything I do except I bat left and my top hand is my left (weaker of the two). Seems to me with bottom hand dominance you slice through the zone and have a tendency to "pull off the ball". The barrel just doesn't come around. I've been able to fix the "pulling off the ball" by concentrating on a little top hand push (not rollover) just help the barrel get going. Now the barrel seems to get to the contact point at the right time. So what really happened? I think I now have the right amount of effort from both hands. Before I was deficient in the top hand. The last thing I need to do is preach top hand because not everyone is/was in my shoes yet how do you make sure a hitter is not deficient in one hand or the other. IMO you have to have a "feel" and an "eye" for what the barrel is doing. Analyze what it's doing and use good logical thinking for what it needs to do and then how to make it happen.
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> I'd love to hear other comments on this issue.

Teacherman-

Let me know what you think about this.

The bat gets turning before "launch" during the tht/box formation part of the swing.Prior to and during this I am now more conscious of the top hand participating in cocking and uncocking the bat and the back elbow going up and back and down into the slot.As this proceeds,the front arm stretches and the front elbow comes up creating tight connection.During this time you are sitting to hit,giving the last bit of stretch/separation plyometric whatever.At this point it is time for the torso to take over which I feel as pull with the bottom hand(tightly connected) while the head stays back.

So now I am more top hand conscious early and bottom hand/torso conscious later.In the past(years ago as contact singles hitter) it was top hand unconscious,then bottom hand pull then top hand push which was definitely less quick for me.

The top hand/back arm/big muscles lead box formation,then the bottom hand/torso lead "launch".

Anything similar for you?