Posted by: PatA (patrick_allison@reyrey.com) on Tue Jan 28 09:54:44 2003

I am in the middle of the "is the girls fastpitch softball swing different from the baseball swing debate". I have tried to find frame by frame pictures of softball players to compare to the swing shown in this sites "swing mechanics" page, but am having no luck. Does anyone know of any web sites that show any softball players swings frame by frame.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here is a clip of a BB and SB swing side by side
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/leebell1970/bbandfp.html
> > > > >
> > > > > What a great clip! It shows that you better have the rotational swing in softball. I don't know if this is valid because of film speed and type of pitch but I timed from when the pitchers let go of the ball and when it crossed the plate and the softball got there a second quicker. I have read (and experienced) that both softball and baseball hitters have less than .4 of a second to react to a pitch from a hard throwing pitcher. Because of the shorter distance (46 ft vs 60 ft) I think the softball hitter has less time to react to different types of pitches. That is why the change up is so effective in softball.
> > > >
> > > > Bruce, your right in that the change is an effective pitch. What makes it most effective is the utter lack of balance and timing in fast pitch. Hitters are instructed, (or understand), that they should not move until they see the pitch after release. They basically go into panic mode at this point trying to catch up, add in weight shift mechanics and you have a recipe for disaster. Pitchers have found that they don't even need a good change to fool hitters, most changes, even at 14U or 16U, stink, they totally give it away. I guess it's so effective that they find no need in learning mechanically good off speed pitches.
> > >
> > > How can anyone with a logical mind tell a hitter who clearly can't catch up to start late/later? Waiting and allowing no movement until they see the ball is an unbelievable case of not really doing what the situation calls for. It attacks a reasonable persons belief in him/herself. If I can't start until I see the ball, and I'm clearly late, then I'll never hit.
> > >
> > > Please give them something else to work with. Look at all the mlb players with their load and movement prior to pitch release. It's not easy and it takes time to learn, but the body can get to a good loaded launch position and be ready to read and explode to the ball at the very point in time that the fastpitch players are first reading. Unbelievable how coaches can set players up for failure.
> > >
> > > As an example, I use my finger flicking example to my 16 yr old players. To flick something with your forefinger it first has to be loaded with the thumb. Your bat needs to be able to be launched with the same quickness of the finger flick. By that I mean when the mind says "swing" the bat must swing with no hesitation just like the finger flicks with no hesitation when you tell it to. The loading has to be done way prior to seeing the ball. You have to get into this explosive position when hitting so your bat has no hesitation and you have to be able to hold it for a brief period of time while not hindering its ability to go without hesitation. This takes a combination of movement, relaxation, coil, discipline and practice among other things.
> > >
> > Teacherman, you are so right the "old" thinking in fast pitch absolutely defies logic. Heard two classics two weekends ago, one 3rd base coach scolding his hitters for their movement away from the pitch, (coiling), these hitters were attempting to do the right thing and were reprimanded for doing so. The other was a coach explaining to his hitter how to go about seeing the ball hit the bat. In both cases, I had to be physically restrained, LOL, the stupidity does start to wear on ya' after a while.
> > >
>
> Can you explain the "seeing the ball hit the bat" problem?

There is actually two problems, one caused when the hitter turns the head to "see" contact, this, (according to Epstein), causes rotation to stop at a point related to where the hitter is looking. Two, the most obvious, the hitter cannot actually see the bat hit the ball.