Posted by: rql () on Tue Sep 25 11:11:48 2007

> rql -
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> good stuff.
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> First I would say that as far as location/pitch/recognition is concerned, the first thing you pick up is in vs out, then up/down and finally velocity/movement (offspeed or not, spin/curveslider,etc).
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> If the pitcher is not dominating, you can cover the whole plate, but even then you might want to look fast OR slow rather than swing at anything near the strike zone.
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> As pitcher gets more dominant, it is better to look in OR out and adjst up/down on fly if you get a pitch in the strike zone on the half of the plate you are looking for.
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> Two strike situation where you need to cover all speeds/entire zone requires shortening up, getting axis more upright, keeping back shoulder up and looking for velocity that is a little less than maximum heater so you can still catch up to heater if necessary. That is more look middle for dominating speed pitcher.
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> Most kids in high school will face nondominant pitching most of the time, so they can look fast or slow and try to cover whole plate as I described by starting the swing as if you are going to get down for a low/outside pitch which requires a deep sit to drive the swing/unloading. IF you recognize inside, you stop the knob turning action of the back arm/top hand earlier/bottom hand lead arm takes over sooner, forward weight shift stops,axis stays leaned back more/does not proceed to get more upright as you dropped the back shoulder sooner and have a shorter swing radius with a more looping swing that matches inside low location.
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> For outside low, the top hand back arm stays active longer/stretches the lead arm more as you "let the ball get deeper", then make the same backshoulder drop adjustment. In this case you continued to sit more as you let the ball get deeper.
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> In the case of looking in OR out, the reason this works is that the timing is about the same for low vs high. You turn on low ball sooner and axis shifts forward/upright longer to make more level swing for high ball or you drop back shoulder and stop axis when it's more leaned back and launch a longer swing that loops down and up and lines up better, but DEPTH of contact is same as for up ball (timing is same for in and up vs in and down).
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> The dominant pitcher with great velocity can break you down here because you have to stay short to get inside high heater, so short that you can't power the low ball. more like being a 2 strike/singles hitter unless you get just what you are looking for (in AND up or in AND down).
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> In general whe you swing, the top hand/back arm needs to be dominant for the early load, then the lead arm/bottom hand needs to take over such that the handle is torqued without interrupting loading or pushing the handpath.
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> The sequence in my opinion is always:
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> 1-inward turn - need to turn body back enough to have enough potential for "early batspeed" which will be necessary to hit outside ball with power without either cutting across it or hitting around it too much. this requires a more inside to out swing path, more forward weight shift, longer swing radius, higher load/resistance to rotatuion, more THT/more rapid depletion of torso coil/load. The inward turn is made best with both hands in near the bellybutton just as in the windup of the overhand throw/pitching which is why some hitters prefer the hitching /lowering move of the hands. They are bringing the hands in/down toward the middle which makes the inward/backward rotation of the body easier.
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> 2-hip cock/cock hands - this requires synched internal rotation of back arm and legs then lifting back arm as stride leg goes out. This internal rotation arm action is what prevents too much turning back or too much early separation/coil of torso. This is when top hand/back arm becomes dominant in leading the loading, analagous to how you break the hands in the overhand throw after the windup - you break the hands by internal rotation and lifting (aBduction) of the arms. This is a much better description than the mysteries of "scap loading". The scaps do need to support this arm action appropriately, but the controller here is the back arm action which makes the back scap pinch/elevate. At the same time, the front scap needs to go down and in so the front shoulder is tilted down, Then the shoulders have to stay this way so they can later UNtilt to resist opening with the hps and torso to get the late stretch and fire adjustment of timing and swing matching.
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> So up to this point you have to have turned back without coiling and you have to have loaded the shoulders front down, back up and you have to have lifted the back arm and cocked the hips and made a negative and positive move with the weight.
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> You are starting to read the pitch and you have to time the rubberbandwinding which is going to start BEFORE the front toe touches in most cases. This is when the lead arm starts to take over and the handle torque starts which will then get interrupted sooner for inside/later for outside deep contact by lead arm internal rotation and more or less elevation followed by shoulder TILT, NOT TURN to finish the front side stretch which you then connect to to finish the swing.
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> The ruberbandwinding or "rotation into toe touch" starts as the weight is going forward and this gives you a window of time during where you have to launch a decent swing before your center of gravity gets over the weight bearing part of the front foot. You can buy more time by sitting on the back leg/flexing the back knee if you have to.
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> For high ball, you will interrupt sit and stretch torso up/out more which gives you plenty of load to power a more level swing.
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> For low ball, you continued to sit which gives you the leg drive to power a more looping swing.
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> The trouble with PCR type rotation only (shoulders turn rather than tilt/resist/connect/turn) is you can't use the handle torque and shoulder tilt to develop the quick stretch and fire type load which unloads more quickly with a better matched swing plane.
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> Without this tht and shoulder tilt, you have drag at the front shoulder where you can see the front arm get left behind when you try to power the launch by just turning the shoulders without handle torque or shoulder tilt.
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> When the shoulders pull in this PCR case, the bat drags no matter how much tension you try to put there and you can't use the smaller/more distal/more mobile body parts to adjust the swing, you have to do it too much with the middle/"posture"/bend at waidt and you have to do it too early.
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> It can work fine if you guess right, but you don't get either the adjustability or the early batspweed (acceleration back behind you in the swing plane) that lets you line the swing up to square things.
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> Finally, "direction of pull of top hand" will vary depending on when the bottom hand starts to take over/ interrupts to work with the top hand to torque the handle as you start coiling/winding the rubber band as you approach toe touch.
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> When the top hand is more active early, the botom hand is more like the oar lock, then the hands need to stay back and the bend needs to stay in the back elbow without uncocking the lead wrist when the lead arm/bottom hand get more active.



.>>Tom excellent thoughts and for the most part your thoughts are my feel.Let me try to point out some areas of confusion we may have,1st your 1st paragraph about in/out up/down then speed and movement.I agree with up to to movement and then I partially agree.The change up you read last so I agree,but with the curve if your a good hitter with really good eyesight you are sometimes reading curve out of the hand,these pitchers allow great hitters to be good curveball hitters because they adjust for offspeed earlier and have more time to prepare for the break and if it will be good or bad pitch,you actually follow the curve all the way in with the decision to swing coming in later as you decide on its initial location and will the spin turn the pitch into the in vs out and up vs down acceptable location or not.Now the good pitcher that for whatever reason hides the spin out of the hand from the good hitter the scenario as you describe works well so the hitter must have put in mental notes to his head right before he blanks his mind.These notes are often very similar as I have spoken to numerous good hitters and all seem to have similar thoughts.When the hitter picks up spin late then he must have already made predecided decisions to notgive up on certain ball locations[righty/righty]dont give up on ball at your lead shoulder,prepare to swing,this is done before pitch,this is the pitch that will break for a strike .If you read spin last then decide if this is good location or not ,then decide to swing or not then the ball is already there and its over,this is confusing to write what a hitter thinks and how he lists his priority of swing info vs no swing info from pitch but I think you can follow to some point ,I can later try to shore up parts you question.
Next,you speak of the interruption by the lower hand when the inside pitch is recognized and the hitter stops preparing for away and adjust to inside location.This is great explanation tom,but where I feel I differ of opinion and the meat of the discussion is,it is that you feel that the top hand is on a plan to be the important hand that is controling the hand motion for the away pitch and then can be interrupted by the low hand to abruptly change the direction of the knob for the inside pitch.I feel that it is the lead hand[bottom] that initiates the knob on the away pitch to go up and out and enhanced and powered by the lead shoulder and seen through the lead elbow lift that is the easier and more efficient hand to perform the action that creates this motion[up and out]to drive the knob up and out.I would also venture to say that I feel in a ballistic move that is required to turn on a 90mph fb that the tilt by the back shoulder is not coming from a mere dropping back by the back side and not from just pulling down of the back elbow but 1 in which the lead side drive up enhances the rear side down and the rear side is controling the amount of bat acceleration rearward for it is in a better position at this early stage and it is not yet in a powerful position yet.

So my thoughts in steps may be as follows:
1 once decision of location and swing has been decided the tilt is driven back by the lead side,the lead hand is driven up and out for away pitch and these actions are what put the rear hand in a position so it can more easily adjust to pitch location as the bat turns in the top hand,the bottom hand action allows the elbow to ride away from the hip not that the rear hand pull adjusted on its own bringing the elbow away from hip or ribs.As these actions link up as you have pointed out it is then lead side shoulder rotation that kicks in producing great batspeed through rotation and a final drive by the top hand forward powered by a rotating back shoulder as the hands beat the elbow to the ribs and is now in a power position to drive forward as the bottom hand is being pulled into the hook by lead shoulder.Your last 2 paragraphs also talk of this point I am discussing.
I think that a system for the body to more easily adopt is 1 where the lead hip is a swing initiator,a lead arm initites the 1st movements to the bat and is supported by rear side ,then it is the lead shoulder that initiates rotation of the shoulders while the back hand stays in a more control position since the shoulder is not in a strong position then when the rear arm is finally in a strong position it is able to drive the top hand forward helping torque along through the swing.
My last point to be fair is that I am a lead arm dominant hitter and that could make a difference as to how some of these points could be felt differently by a back arm dominant hitter but the lead side initiator of systems ,seems easier than front back then front again.