Posted by: Major Dan (markj89@charter.net) on Mon Jan 13 06:32:48 2003

Who ever you are, you post is a good one and is correct in my opinion,
> > > > > > im the guy in the video and you're opinion is valid. The biggest problem of most young hitters is the restriction of the front leg. I do want to point out that the video shows us working with kids trying to get them to keep a bent front knee until contact. However, the problem with kids is usually patience and strength. They are not strong enough to maintain balance through rotation and don't wait and go linear before they rotate. This is one of the best post I have read on Jacks web site in a long time. If you are interested I have spent hours upon hours with Jack and I consider his input as good as anyones. I would with any problem not hesitate to ask him because of the amount of information he has to offer.
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> > > > > > John Elliott.
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> > > > > John-
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> > > > > I would second your comment about lack of strength.I find Epstein's lower body drills very good and kids often fall over when they first attempt them.Even as they make progress,however,they rarely have learned how to cock the hip and maintain this until rotation starts.Then the front leg straightens as toe touch approaches and there is not much left to rotate with,not so much because the leg is straight,but because the hip is no longer cocked/cocking.
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> > > > > One thing that may help kids learn/coaches teach Jack's principles and make the most of the sequential drills you illustrate is teaching the feel of hip cock/uncock.Analyzing progress here may necessitate a more biomechanically detailed model of the swing/video analysis than most would care to hear about.
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> > > > With all do respect, I don't agree with Epstein's approach at all, in fact I view it as a recipe for disaster. I've heard him speak many times, because I happened to be there, and none of his students resemble his mentor Ted Williams. His interpretation of Ted's swing is incorrect. I've analized Ted's swing many times, and his hand path was completely different......not even close. Trust me when I say that if the hand path is incorrect then the lower body action is incorrect also. Thus Ted Williams' lower body action is not what Epstein is teaching. I don't believe you can manufacture the hip torque, when it comes to feel........otherwise the emphasis get's placed in the wrong area and you have excessive leg action of which I spoke. As Ted Williams said, it's a metronome, nobody had to teach it. The reason Ted Williams was great in my opnion was that he was right handed. He swing makes perfect sense.....I have always hit from both sides of the plate my whole life and played golf from either side...but I'm right handed when I do everything else (except use scissors for some reason). This helped me immeasurably when I tried to understand the role of the hands. There are too many angles in joints in Epstein's approach, thus there are too many angles in the swings.
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> > > Coach C. refer us to some specific hitters that are either Williams' disciples (like Garciapora) or references in Ted's book or Epstein's tape that you say are so wrong. Does Bonds swing wrong? What does Bonds' lower body do? How about his front leg? Looks like it straightens to me.
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> > Bonds stays connected, which means his lead arm is practically barred to his upper torso. Epstein students chicken wing and that is way wrong. Williams, never chicken winged. Front leg locking happens, but it comes with a price, however sitting to hit is the key here. There is a lateral shift that provides the force behind the leg lock, but youngsters do not generally have the leg strength or core strength to provide the stabilty for this action, thus they choose to snap the leg straight. Here's the bottom line, level hips help provide a level swing, leg lock produces angles. Bonds is outstanding, but his gift is quite clear for me, he has learned how to see the ball longer than everyone else, by letting it get deeper. This is a whole other issue, which 99% of people have no idea how to do. Epstein students hit the ball way in front of the lead foot. Epstein interpretes what he sees in Bonds and sells the similarities, but there is way more to Bonds that you are not taking the time to notice, or maybe you see it differntly than me.....There is a lateral slide in a baseball swing (sitting to hit), but unfortunately poor hitters that lunge ruin it for the rest of us.
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> Coach-
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> Some interesting points.I think Epstein does a fine job.His stuff will not preclude you from learning good mechanics and does compress/accelerate learning for many.He does not fully explain the hip motion,but if you know the feel yourself,his drills permit learning it as you develop lower body strength and balance and keep the handpath controlled to focus on the lower parts.
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> I would imagine the dominant hand being the front arm does tend to promotr more of a "backhand"(tennis) which is more rotational than the forehand.You tend t turn the back more and not push the swing as much as in the case of "top hand dominance".

Tom-
I have a pretty strong tennis background. You can be rotational or linear on the forehand side. Andy Roddick and Andre Agassi demonstrate that very well.
On the backhand side a two handed backhand can be as rotational as a forehand and much like a baseball swing (there are differences in the arms). A one handed backhand is much more linear, partial hip turn and pendulum swing from the arm.
Forehands have been taught with linear concepts - weight shift and extend through contact. But if you keep the hand in front of the elbow and the elbow comes along with the hip as the hips turn, you get a great rotational forehand with lots of pop. Its not 'textbook', but it works better and the pros do it because they need to to succeed...