Posted by: George () on Tue Sep 11 13:31:19 2007

> > > Hi All
> > >
> > > I have often pointed out that the very best hitters generate their exceptional power and bat speed with transfer mechanics that first accelerates the bat-head rearward to and through the lag position (bat sweeping past the catcher). With these mechanics, they have already generated considerable bat speed in the rearward portion of the swing plane before they direct their energy toward the ball.
> > >
> > > The bat-head arcs through about 180 degrees from its launch position behind the head to contact. The bat first moves rearward 90 degrees to the “lag” position, and then 90 degrees from the lag position to contact. The reason the bat first moves rearward 90 degrees to the lag position is because a batter CANNOT generate maximum bat speed with a static bat at the lag position. Great hitters generate great bat speed because their mechanics is accelerating the bat-head around the entire 180 degrees.
> > >
> > > Notably, most average hitters use upper-body mechanics that simply take his hands and knob toward the ball without first generate bat speed by taking the bat rearward toward the catcher. Driving the knob forward causes the bat-head to just lower and trail behind the hands.
> > >
> > > Shawn stated many times in his analysis video that there is no rearward acceleration of the bat-head and that the bat only accelerated downward. Of course the bat lowers downward into the swing plane, but it also moves rearward. Shawn discounts (or misunderstands) the force applied by the top hand as the rear elbow lowers into the slot, even though video analysis clearly shows the bat moving rearward when this occurs.
> > >
> > > There is no point in further discussing this with Shawn, but you be the judge: is there rearward acceleration of the bat?
> > >
> > > <a href="http://home.comcast.net/~ben_2004/plttht.wmv">Shawn’s Analysis</a>
> > >
> > > <a href="http://www.batspeed.com/media/Sosa_Launch2Lag.wmv">My Analysis</a>
> > >
> > > Jack Mankin
> >
> >
> > Jack. It is not that Shawn does not understand what you are saying as I believe he does. It is just the fact that Sammy Sosa appears to drop his hands/HITCH much like Ernie Banks. The HITCH that Sammy uses happens to be his personal style used as a timing mechanism. And for him that timing method works. Any rearward movement appears to be a collapse of angled arms as opposed to whipping the the bat forward like Gary Sheffield.
> >
> > But to your defense other great hitters use what you preach just not all great hitters.
> >
> > Manny Ramirez, Pujols, Travis Haffner, Alex Rios, Hank Aaron demonstrate principles you describe it appears.
> >
> > David Ortiz, Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, Billy Williams, Ernie Banks, Dave Winfield, Eric Davis, use angle/slot drops in order to get to the Launch position. They then apply raw strength to generate power from a solid launch base.
> >
> > Seriously, if you continue to merely writeoff people's opinions you will lose credibility as being able to be objective. As even when people are wrong or misinformed someone may learn something from their opinion. And though what you generally describe as rearward acceleration is a HITCH (or sometimes FLAW) with regard to Sosa. A HITCH (like the toe tap) does create batspeed in itself, but may help timing with regard to some hitters.
>
> George:
>
> A few quick comments and questions. First, as an initial observation, you must be joking that Jack will lose credibility if disagrees with Shawn's views (and of course you are referring to Shawn's comments). I certainly don't hearing you saying the reverse, namely that Shawn will lose credibility despite that he sees things only his way and refuses to consider Jack's analysis and video demonstrations.
>
> Second, you may wish to call it a "hitch" in Sosa's swing, which is fine, but you need to describe and define exactly what mechanics and forces are involved in the "hitch." As you know, Jack has defined and explained Sosa's swing as containing the key elements of PLT, THT and CHP. So four questions for you in this regard:
>
> 1) (Rearward/Downward/Both) -- Based on the videos of Sosa's swing, do you agree with Shawn (that there was only a downward movement of the bat) or Jack (that there is a rearward and downward movement of the bat to the lag position)?
>
> 2) (PLT) -- Is Sosa's early bat movement BEFORE shoulder rotation something other than PLT, as Jack defines PLT? If so, decribe the forces that are being applied to the bat BEFORE shoulder rotation, which causes the bat to accelerate toward the catcher.
>
> 3) (THT) -- As shoulder rotation begins and the rear elbow lowers to vertical, what force is being applied to the handle of the bat through the top hand, causing the bat to move rearward/downward? Or do you believe that the top hand applies no force to the bat as the elbow lowers?
>
> 4) (CHP) -- Do you agree that Sosa has a CHP to contact? If not, why?
>
> Brian


Brian. I appreciate your constructive incite. As such, it is not my wish to disrespect Jack's knowledge or his opinions. But it is my opinon that it is okay to disagree. But it is not in the best interest to act as though someone who is clearly making a sincere effort to study/review dynamics viewpoint is cast away is if he is coming from leftfield. And I believe you know what I am saying, as only certain opinions make it to the board because of the screening process.

In answering your questions I share the following observation.

1) There is an angled/drop collapse of both arms. This represents a hitch which is a swing fault. In general this swing fault is not desired because the hands have to go back up to a good hitting position. Some advanced hitters use a hitch or trigering mechanism
but to connect a hitch with desired hitting technique is questionable at best. I would agree with Shawn. But I do see where the bat shifts positions from where Jack is looking. But I believe that to be a by product of the hitch, not a deliberate cocking of the wrists or THT which would be consistent with rearward acceleration as evidenced in Manny Ramirez's side view. Note that if you watch Ramirez, his hands go up first and into the rearward dynamics Jack preaches.

2) Same as one, only it is not acceleration back, but a function of getting the bat to a launch angle. So there are seperate acts occuring as opposed to THT which is one continuous movement. Defined as a backward force (pulling the bow) and a resulting forward force. Sosa is placing his bat into a launch position and using more upperbody strength like Konerko and Thome.

3) It is my belief that the bottom and top hand apply as equal force as possible (downward gravity) considering Sosa being right handed likely has more strength in his right hand. Both hands are being pushed down back in unison. I do not believe that Sosa is using opposing forces because his bat does not wrap, but instead drops/lowers. (As a function of the stride, the hands almost have to go back (but there is not necessarily rearward accelaration) that creates batspeed. Further Sammy Sosa always had batspeed, even as a White Sox player. What he did not have was timing. Thus batspeed (among other tools) got him the major leagues. Timing improvement, steroids, HGH....is what kept him up here.

4) I do believe Sosa has a circular hand path. But so did Al Kaline, Carl Yastremski, and Reggie Jackson. Each hitter for a significant part of their career hit with the bat completely vertical and looped the bat to the ball while using leg drive. Jason Giambi is perhaps the best example of a power hitter that does not use much THT. Someone put up some video months back of the side view of a number of hitters. If you can view that footage you will see what I am refering to. But once again it would help to zoom into the hands on an extreme closeup to see if the hands cock significantly which would more likely prove the opposing force that leads to rearward acceleration.