Posted by: Teacherman () on Tue Dec 10 11:58:10 2002

>>> I am very surprised by your response. I expected scientific proof much like what is offered in the research section of the website. Although we are on the very same page with what hitting mechanics should be, we are on very different pages on this issue. I fully expected you to prove that the bat decelerates between the "L" and the power V like your followers kept insisting. I don't golf but I have several golf pro friends who all insist maximum club head speed is at extension. Are they wrong? If so, why would swinging a baseball bat be any different than swinging a golf club WHEN IT COMES TO MAXIMUM BATSPEED/CLUBHEAD SPEED. Again, for the umteenth time, I'm not recommending hitting at the power V. My question is, if we had a contest with big bucks offered by a corporate sponsor for the guy who can register the fastest on the SwingMate where will this reading be within the swing? Would it really be with his back arm at the "L". Teacherman <<<
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> > > > Hi Teacherman
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> > > > Yes. --- Maximum bat speed for rotational mechanics occurs at the completion of shoulder rotation. Or, as the lead-shoulder finishes pulling back (about the 105-degree point). This occurs long before the back arm extends to the “V” position. – Note: the bat is pointing in the direction of the pitcher when the rotational hitter reaches the “V” position (a good 70 degrees past the point of keeping the ball fair).
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> > > > Professor Robert K. Adair, author of “The Physics of Baseball,” states in his book that it requires about 3.5 torque horsepower to hit a baseball 400 feet. He went on to say that the arms supplied only about 1/6 of that energy. He further states that by far, most of the power comes from the transfer of the body’s kinetic and rotational energies.
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> > > > So, once again, maximum bat speed is reached as the bodies rotational energy has been depleted. At that time, the back-elbow will still be near the batters side.. -- The extension of the back-arm just hinders the transfer of the body’s rotational energy and delays bat speed development.
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> > > > Jack Mankin
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> > > Jack
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> > > So are my golf buddies wrong?
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> > > And, you said, "maximum batspeed for rotational mechanics" is at the completion of shoulder rotation. I'm not looking for the answer to where is maximum batspeed within rotational mechanics. I'm looking for maximum batspeed however possible. If you took out the "for rotational mechanics" is the answer the same? Is the maximum batspeed for any mechanics (whatever mechanics one wants to use; good, bad, linear, rotational, useless, professional) at the "L"
> > > If I want to take the SwingMate to the limit, will the arm be at the "L"?
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> > > My little unscientific test shows different results. My players (fourteen 16 yr olds) and myself, all register at least 5 degrees faster when we have a batspeed contest and all of them are well past the "L" and most at full extension when they register their highest speed. And, I would have to say that the swings are basically rotational. Not necessarily the best swings. Not swings they could use in a game. They're all too long. But the energy is coming from rotation. They all look like they coil up and throw the hands/bathead into an arc with their arms extended when the high batspeeds are registered. And, the high batspeeds are probably past where contact would normally be. Why do we get different results?
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> > Jack
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> > As a followup to my last post, please review a couple of swing clips of Arod. They are at www.setpro.com/stuff/arodswing1.mov and www.setpro.com/stuff/arodswing2.mov. The swing1 clip shows Arod totally fooled by a pitch way outside and low. His shoulders are still facing homeplate on contact (no rotation whatsoever), his arms are fully extended and he hits the ball 390+ feet. A near home run. Where did that batspeed come from? It couldn't have come from the rotation of the shoulders, they never rotate. It seems to me that there must be some real good batspeed that results from reaching full extension. Again, I'm not advocating full extension in the swing. I like the "L" because of the bat quickness it provides. BUT, I have to believe what I see. And, therefore, I still have to ask if there isn't MAXIMUM batspeed at extension??
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> > Swing2 is a home run hit 404+ feet. Not the best swing in the world because he's fooled by location but much better swing than the first swing. Again, the ball is contacted at full extension. It's hit as he reaches for a pitch a foot outside, at extension, and he drives the ball over the center field fence. There has to be some very good batspeed at extension.
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> > Teacherman
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> Het Teacherman, I like you are was once new to this site, and I, like you and many others were confused at first. The following statement was made by Jack and maybe it will help you to increase your understanding of rotational mechanics. Jack said " Maximum bat speed for rotational mechanics occurs at the completion of shoulder rotation. Or, as the lead-shoulder finishes pulling back (about the 105-degree point). This occurs long before the back arm extends to the “V” position." I hope this helps.

Hey unnamed. What you said has been repeated many times and it doesn't address the issue. Thanks anyway.

Teacherman