Posted by: Teacherman () on Fri Nov 29 20:50:19 2002

>>> Now, for you to find anyting wrong with this post you almost have to believe that major leaguers swing at their maximum batspeed in game situations. It's just not the case. Due to the time constaints of decision making, overcoming inertia and all the other factors involved in making a good decision and then getting the bat on the ball, it is next to impossible for them to swing at their maximum batspeeds. Their batspeeds are still very good, obviously. But they are not their best batspeeds. Coupled with quicker bats (because of shorter swings) they are the best hitters alive.
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> It appears to me that the biggest disagreement here is not if the major leaguers hit at full extension. I have never made that comment. It is quite clear that they don't reach full extension. The disagreement is over their batspeed. I contend that their maximum batspeed is at full extension but that swing is useless due to the need for timing. Therefore, the tradeoff of some batspeed for swing quickness. Teacherman <<<
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> Hi Teacherman,
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> I agree with you that the batspeed that really counts must be generated by contact. Any bat acceleration that occurs after contact is wasted energy. I also agree that the swing mechanics used by the average hitter gains much of the bat speed after passing the normal contact point. Therefore, for an average hitter to reach maximum bat speed the batter’s arms will be nearing full extension. But I do not agree that this is also true with the mechanics used by the better professional hitters.
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> The average hitter uses one-dimension swing mechanics. They initiate their swing by directing their energies (extending the back-side and arm) toward the pitcher. The great hitters have an added dimension to their swing mechanics. They accelerate the bat-head back toward the catcher BEFORE they turn and direct their energies toward to pitcher. Developing this early circular bat speed back behind allows better hitters to reach maximum speed farther back (earlier) in the swing where the back-elbow is still in the “L” position.
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> I call the mechanic (added dimension) the better hitters use to accelerate the bat-head back toward the catcher, Top-Hand-Torque (THT). Below is another post I wrote earlier on this topic.
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> Added note: I charted the swings of a few (very few) hitters who could exhibit the mechanics discussed below without initiating the swing with THT. Ron Gant and Matt Williams are examples. They made a living on inside pitches but were weak outside.
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> As Major Dan pointed out, all hitters (3/3) will have the back-arm more extended (well past the “L” position) on more outside pitches. But, even on pitches down the middle, I would be surprised if more than 1/3 of today's pro hitters bring the bat to contact with the back-arm in the "L" position. This, along with lead-shoulder pull, is the mark of a hitter with real power for pitches from the middle-in.
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> The "L" position of the back-arm and the lead-shoulder pulling the bottom-hand back at contact are the key components in generating the "hook" (coined by Paul Nyman) in the hand-path. The "hook" indicates the arc radius of the hand-path is rapidly shrinking which maximizes the transfer of the body's rotational energy to the bat, and greatly increases the bat's rate of angular displacement. The "hook" also indicates maximum bottom-hand-torque is being applied to the bat. -- In other words, great bat speed is being developed when these two positions (the "L" position and lead-shoulder pull) occur.
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> Average hitters apply a good deal of torque to the bat by driving the top-hand past the bottom-hand. But, the farther the back-arm extends to produce the torque, the more sweeping the hand-path becomes -- and therefore producing less "hook" effect. --- The better hitters apply torque by using lead-shoulder rotation to pull the bottom-hand around the top-hand (back-arm in "L" position). This pulling back action generates the "hook" effect.
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> Therefor, the average hitter may apply as much torque to the bat as a better hitter, but his sweeping (or straighter) hand-path does not transfer as much of the body's rotational energy. To become a great hitter requires both torque and the transfer of rotational energy. --- Note: For maximum "hook" effect -- the "L" (1), pull back (2), and contact (3) - must occur simultaneously (or together).
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> Jack Mankin

Jack

I fully understand your tophand torque theory. Whether I totally agree with it is another issue. But lets assume it is correct and that the added dimension of pulling back toward the catcher creates more & earlier batspeed. Earlier batspeed is good, no doubt about it. But this entire discussion started about Paul Nyman's statement that "from what he knows about biomechanics the greatest batspeed is reached at full extension." What is your opinion about where the greatest batspeed is generated? I don't see how these two statements are mutually exclusive. You believe you can start earlier batspeed with tht. Ok, fine. Where is the MAXIMUM batspeed generated? And if it's not at extension, what slows it down prior to extension?

Teacherman
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