Posted by: Nicl22 (swfranklin@pbsj.com) on Wed Nov 27 04:32:04 2002

>>> I think the best way to describe a short swing is to have a link from the start of your swing, with your circular hand path to the front shoulder. Remember if you start your hands wrong nothing else matters, so that is what a short swing is.
> > > > > If you have questions Jack has posted the lead arm pull and the connection of the front shoulder to bring the bat around so just go back and refresh yourself. I think if you read Jacks posts you will get the hang of it. – John <<<
> > > >
> > > > >>> Do the top hand and arm have any influence on whether a swing is long or short? <<<
> > > >
> > > > Hi Major Dan
> > > >
> > > > I would say that how a batter uses the top-hand at initiation is a defining factor to the length of the swing. --- A powerful swing that brings the bat-head to contact with the shortest hand travel in the least amount of time, requires the energy from both the lead-side and the back-side to be equally transferred. This balanced transfer can only occur when the rotation of the lead-shoulder cause the lead-hand to be pulling on the knob end of the bat just as strong as the top-hand is applying force in the opposite direction.
> > > >
> > > > Since lead-shoulder rotation is pulling the lead-hand around toward the pitcher at initiation, the top-hand must be pulling back toward the catcher. If instead, the top-hand is shoved forward (in the same direction as the lead-hand) the lead-arm will separate from the rotating body and the force supplied to the lead-hand diminishes. This leaves the development of bat speed mainly up to the extension of the back-side alone.
> > > >
> > > > I define a long or short swing by how far the hands traveled from launch to contact and how much time elapsed (number of video frames from launch to contact). – Transfer mechanics that rely mainly on back-side drive and extension of the top-hand is longer in both hand travel and time elapsed. Professional hitters who have the back-arm near full extension as the bat becomes perpendicular to the ball’s path require 5 to 5.5 frames and the hands travel 8 to 12 inches past the “L” position. -- Good rotational hitters require about 4 to 4.5 frames and make contact (middle-in pitches) with the back-arm still in the “L” position.
> > > >
> > > > Jack Mankin
> > > >
> > >
> > > Major D-
> > >
> > > This is why I think the internal rotation of the back arm is important in "loading".External rotation(get the hands flat/scoop sand with the top hand,etc.) is necessary to work right with lead arm pull.If you have not internally rotated the back arm to begin with,then you can only push with the back arm.See if you can feel this.It might be hard for you if your shoulder is sore.Mine's sore after doing a few hundred too many.
> >
> > Tom, I'm terribly sorry but I don't understand what you mean by "internal rotation" of the back arm. I would like to try this, but could you bear with me and tell me specifically how to accomplish this?
>
> Bart-
>
> The shoulder/arm motion is very complex.Off the top of my head,I think of it as follows.Any true gross anatomists out there may need to correct this.If you stand with your hands at your side and palms facing forward,raising the arms to the "cross" position would be ABduction,arms going away from body.Lowering them back would be ADduction,moving them toward the body.Lifting the arms up in front of you as in making an offering or making a muscle(make biceps stand out) would be flexion,and the opposite movement would be extension.Leaving the arms down in the initial position,then turning/rotating the palms(about 270 degrees/3/4 of a circle) twists the forearm(pronation,turning thumb toward body)and internally rotates the arm bone-humerus.Rotating back to palms forward would require suppinating the forearm bones and externally rotating the arm/humerus.
>
> External rotation is most commonly used to describe the throwing elbow laying back as the torso rotation starts in pitching.Then the "catapulting" forward is internal rotation( with extension at the elbow at the same time.
>
> Another less accurate way of saying it would be how the arm bone twists in the shoulder socket.
>
> The importance of internal rotation in the "arm cock" portion of the overhand throwing motion to reduce shoulder stress was emphasized to me several years ago by Jeff Hodge.He is a biomechanics expert(among many other qualifications) who worked with the orthopedic surgeons(Jobe,et al) at Centinella Hospital in L.A. taking care of many pro teams including the Dodgers.Jeff has studied many pros hitting and throwing and has been a very successful little league coach.
>
> Paul Nyman has made the essential observation of the importance of pinching the shoulder blades to stabilize the shoulder complex and transmit force efficiently and safely through the shoulder joint,part of what he has described as Scapula loading.He has also noted this is important in both throwing and hitting.Good scapula loading and internal rotation and limiting of "forearm twist" during throwing could save many an arm.
>
> Jack has pointed out that setting up the back arm/top hand to push the swing ruins connection.
>
> You have described the importance of "cocking the bat".I believe the last bit of cocking the bat should be internal rotation of the back arm.In this way,the uncocking can start as external rotation and adduction of the back arm.Extension of the back arm must be avoided or the back arm will push the swing.The feel that needs to be learned of the proper way of loading should be that of using the big muscles to accomplish these antomical motions.
>
> The internal rotation with bat cocking is especially pronounced on hitters that hold the hands low and the bat vertical,such as Barry Bonds or Ted Williams.They can then load well without bringing the back elbow up very much.The higher you hold the hands,the more you start with/keep the back elbow up and already have the back arm in the internally rotated position.
>
> Hope that's not too confusing.Anyway,it's just a hypothesis.Maybe no more real or effective than the old "radial deviation"(still not sure exactly what that was) that was popular a few years back.See how it fits with your analysis.
>

Jack,

I do not understand the statement:

"Since lead-shoulder rotation is pulling the lead-hand around toward the pitcher at initiation, the top-hand must be pulling back toward the catcher."

If I am pulling the the knob of the bat in a circular path towards the pitcher / ball with my shoulder it seems that exerting force on the bat in the opposite direction would result in slowing the rotational forces of the swing?

Can you elaborate on pulling back towards the catcher.

Thanks