Posted by: Bart () on Fri Nov 22 17:45:39 2002

> There seems more agreement than disagreement to me here.Maybe that's just my overly optimistic nature.Paul Nyman has said that max batspeed is with "extension" at contact, with no disconnection or deceleration before contact.Griffey(and Big Mac) have been given as examples of hitters who get extended at contact.Nyman also states that Griffey gets a lot of separation,but that this is NOT the swing he would teach because it's harder to master,and he prefers a swing that is "quicker to the ball." That doesn't mean he doesn't admire Junior's swing.
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> Paul's main disagreement with Jack has mainly to do with whether or not/to what degree "hand torque" is a cue verus real underlying principle.I am not qualified and do not intuitively understand this area well enough to weigh in. I would love to see the two of them set up some trials/evidence to elucidate this if their exact differences can be defined.
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> Jack has described a more extended swing for the outside pitch.Whether he believes this relates to higher batspeed potential I don't know.
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> I think Lau Jr's "cues" (not really anything like a "law") are descriptions/instructions that produce this more extended Griffey like further off the plate swing.You can't belly up with mechanics like this or you get a serious hole in the zone up and in or just in.You also get more vulnerable(slump prone) to the outside stuff because the timing has to be really exquisite to get consistent contact so near full extension,and with relatively little torso turn.

Well,I won't beat a dead horse but will make some final comments.

(1) The responses to this topic has essentially been a defense of Paul. This would be ok, except that instead of analyzing what he said, point by point, the defense has been along the lines of "out of context", "misinterpretation", etc.

(2) Paul is probably right that there are trade-offs to make in the swing.Bat speed will do no good if you can't make contact with the ball. However, I disagree with the notion that full XT is one of these trade-offs, and I disagree that Paul's notion of the PERFECT SWING is one that only the "elite" can master. Since well over 90 per cent of the major leaguers contact an inside or middle pitch with their top arm in the "L" position, I think it is safe for me to reject the notion that none of these hitters in the 90 per cent category are among the "elite" hitters.

(3) Again, I would be interested in what Jack thinks about the following statements of Nyman:

"a golf/extension swing will develop the greatest bat speed (bat speed is not the same as swing quickness)" and

"The max batspeed swing - connected golf/type swing with full extention at contact - is the most difficult to master and use against elite pitching." and

"Sacrificing some batspeed for swing quickness - like Bonds - is a better path to succeed at hitting at the elite level."

And for that matter, Tom, since I know you are a golf enthusiast, I would be interested in specific comments from you regarding the comments alluding to the golf swing.