Posted by: Mark H. () on Thu Oct 31 07:49:11 2002

Took me a while to dig this out.This is the nearest thing to science I have seen on the web.
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> > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/baseballdocs/Baseball.pdf
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> > > > > > This is the most generous estimate I have found of "lift".It is still estimated and not directly measured based on baseball numbers.It would seem to indicate that the lift could exceed the weight of the softball somewhere between 90 and 100 mph if you could provide underspin at a rate of 54 rev per second.I don't think this spin rate is humanly possible,but direct measurements would be nice.Any willing grad students out there ?
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> > > > > 54 rev per sec seems really slow. Are you sure about this number?
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> > > > > F. J.
> > > > > You may be thinking in terms of rev per minute(RPM).This is rev per sec.In this example this spin rate was created by machine for a baseball and measured with high speed photograghy.56rps=3240rpm.
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> > > > Watts and Bahill estimate that the rising fastball would be possible in baseball(lift exceed gravity) if you threw at 100 mph with a spin rate of 3400 rpm.However,maximum spin rate of college players has been measured at only 2310 rpm and they think it unlikely anyone can get in the 3400rpm ball park.
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> > > While I do not think it's possible to spin a ball enough to make it curve up, It may be possible for some one, but very few, to spin a ball enough to keep it from dropping as much.
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> > The ability to make a fastpitch pitch appear to rise is considered a high level skill, but is by no means that unusual. Among the 60 something teams in attendance you will find few pitchers at the ASA 18U Gold Nationals without this skill.
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> > "Scientist believe that if the ball does not drop as much as the batter expects, it will look like it rose."
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> > Indeed. Assuming the scientists are correct about the ball not rising,and it seems all the actual research is done on baseballs rather than softballs, then this would be the only possible explanation, would it not?
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> > But, I think this is very unlikely.
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> > Two words. Field research.
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> > > In softball I think it's impossible. The spin must be from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock back toward the thrower for the ball to have any chance at all to affect the drop.
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> > The spin on the "riseball" is 6-12 as you surmised. It is rarely perfect but the math gurus tell me that half backspin/half bullet spin (IOW with the axis of rotation at 45 degrees to the direction of flight) gives something like 70 to 80 percent of the lift that perfect backspin would give. Decent backspin for a pitcher would be considered better than half backspin. Good backspin would be somewhere approching 85 to 90 percent perfect backspin.
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> > The over hand pitch imparts the most spin. This can not be done with an underhanded pitch.
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> > Actually, it can. Just takes a different wrist snap and a release where the fingers move forward under the ball at release. The hand is turned out at this point with the finger tips pointed toward third base for a rh pitcher. The torso needs to be open and back to accomplish this unless the pitcher is unusually flexible. Basically, to help you baseball guys visualize this, think of a straight down breaking baseball curve and think of the way it would be thrown. Now turn that upside down. IOW, hold your hand over your head as if your were releasing a straight down hook with your palm facing first base. Now, drop your hand down by your leg in the same position only now your palm is facing third base (rh pitcher). Just as a good boy's pitcher can get good fast spin on a straight down curve ball with an over the top release, a female or men's fastpitch pitcher, can get good fast 6-12 spin on the underhand release.
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> > A softball pitcher "may" be able to get the 12 to 6 spin, but with very little rpms.
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> > Actually, with a good pitcher, the rpms are fast enough to hear the seams hissing.
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> > Here's a website to help you with the visuals a little.
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> > http://www.softballclinics.com/grips.htm
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> > Mark H.
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> I just noticed you were saying 12-6 spin. From the pitcher's point of view, this would be correct. Most people discuss fastpitch spin in terms of the catcher's perspective. Thus perfect "riseball" spin would be considered 6-12 spin.
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> Mark H.

Well...I guess that cleared it up? Thread sure died. I don't know if I just explained it that well or...?

Mark H.