Posted by: josh (jsorge5126@aol.com) on Fri Apr 14 21:47:46 2000

>>>Who is the "they" you say recommends an inside-out swing on outside pitches. I'm also a little confused on what you are trying to explain should happen on an outside pitch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the swing be the same on a pitch middle out as middle in? The only difference is letting the ball get deeper in the stance? Bat angle dictates where the ball is hit. That's the whole point of letting it get deep. Otherwise, hitters would (i know you hate this term but i'm going to use it anyway) roll-over or go around the pitch away from them. please clarify (and yes, i have read your posts in previous threads,truisms and fallacies, etc)
>
> Josh<<<
>
> Hi Josh
>
> Josh, this is a topic that needs more discussion. So I am starting a new thread with it.
>
> My interpretation of an inside-out swing is when the hands are leading the bat head through contact. Whenever a batter intends to hit to the opposite field, he has two options. One would be the inside-out swing. His second option would be, as you pointed out, to allow the ball to get deeper into the stance. --- The problem with letting the ball get deeper is that the batter must now develop bat speed in a shorter space and timeframe. If, as you stated, the mechanics were the "same on a pitch middle out as middle in " then bat speed would have to suffer if the mechanics and time applied were shortened by allowing the pitch to get deeper in the hitting zone.
>
> This is not the case with your better hitters. He does not allow the ball to get deeper and some of the longest homeruns I have ever charted were on outside pitches. And, they were mostly hit from left-center to right-center not just the opposite field. This quality of hitter gets his bat fairly perpendicular to the balls line-of-flight on both inside and outside pitches (unless the pitch fools him to be earlier or late). His mechanics for the two pitches are not the same. The way he initiates the swing for inside pitches keeps the lead arm across much of his torso all the way to contact. This generates a very tight hand-path where the lead shoulder rotates so that at contact the shoulder is pulling back toward the catcher. For outside pitches, his initiation (more top hand torque) causes the lead arm to cast a few degrees away from the torso to reach the outside pitch. The hands take a wider arc and shoulder rotation is less at contact.
>
> Josh, please clarify. "go around the ball". How would a "pulled ball" be different than "go around the ball?" Do you really believe the bat actually wraps around (or goes around) the ball. --- Please explain in as much detail as possible.
>
> Jack Mankin
>

Jack,

I understand how you admonish the term "going around it." I too have viewed hitters through video and seen countless hitters in person. The hands do not actually go around the path of the ball if you broke it down frame by frame. this has just become a phrase for hitters who let their hands drift too far from their body as either in the trigger or on the initiation of the swing. I do however belive that (and I hope you concur) that the hands should stay somewhere bewteen the path of the ball and the body. Hitters who suffer from going around around the ball repeatedly try to hook or pull each pitch, regardless of location.

Now, correct me if i'm wrong, if hitters make contact with outside pitches with the bat perpendicular with balls on the outside half, wouldn't the flight of the ball be directed towards the middle of the field? the bat angle is such that the ball would have nowhere else to go. if so, i want that guy hitting with a runner on 1st base and less than two outs so he can keep the ball in the middle to turn a double play (we get guys to roll over pitches on the outside half all the time to turn two who practice what you're advocating).

basically, what i'm arguing is that if the bat is perpendicular to the path of the ball on an outside pitch, how can a ball be hit the other way (either in the 5-6 hole for LH or 3-4 hole for RH)? bat angle dictates where the ball is hit. sure, you obviously lose some power the other way because we cannot generate enough bat speed prior to contact, that's one reason so many homeruns are hit center to pull. Power guys get away with hitting HRs the other way because the generate enough torgue to begin with (Belle, Griffey, ARod, Ramirez, your basic baseball freaks of nature, etc). But, your mere mortals rarely do it because they can't get the bat going as fast on outside pitches. there's nothing wrong with that. they are doing what you're supposed to do. in my opinion, there's nothing prettier than when a pitcher makes a great pitch on the outside half and the hitter lets the ball get deep and drills it the other way.

jack, hopefully we are hung up on some semantics here, because this is one phase of hitting i don't see myself changing unless i see some radical video footage or experience it myself with my guys. until then, i will be hard pressed to change my thinking. I appreciate the dialogue and look forward to your response.

josh