Posted by: rql () on Tue Sep 17 16:53:26 2002

On Friday I asked a question on bottom hand torque. My son's coach has never heard of the term and I don't see much if any explanation at your site or on your tape. I thought that since you all frequently use the term you could answer my question.I'll repeat what I asked Friday:
> > > > > > I have enough trouble understanding what you mean by top hand torque. I think I understand the concept, but I have seen several reference at this site to bottom hand torque. I have not seen a clear explanation in Jack's tape or materials on this subject. Can someone please explain exactly what is bottom hand torque, how it differs from top hand torque, etc? I think I even recall someone saying some hitters are top hand torque hitters and some are bottom hand torque hitters. A thorough explanation would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much
> > > > > >>Brett,I would say that bottom hand torque is designed to be used best on middle in pitches,as the lead shoulder pulls around it begins to pull back near the end towards the catcher,at same time rear shoulder is driving towards pitcher.this pull/push effect puts torque on bat allowing it to accelerate.The power is supplied by large muscle groups but transferred through the forearms and hands to the bat.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you, RQL, I'm glad someone thought my question was worthy of a response.But I still do not understand what the difference is in top hand torque and bottom hand torque. You said that for middle in pitches "as the lead shoulder pulls around it begins to pull back near the end towards the catcher,at same time rear shoulder is driving towards pitcher.this pull/push effect puts torque on bat allowing it to accelerate.The power is supplied by large muscle groups but transferred through the forearms and hands to the bat". Are you saying that for bottom hand torque this "pull/push effect" puts torque on the bat but not for outside pitches? When do you use top hand torque, just for outside pitches? Are you saying that top hand torque and bottom hand torque are mutually exclusive? Also I have seen people at your site equate top hand torque with rotational mechanics and bottom hand torque with linear mechanics. For example, Hitman (and if I am misinterpreting him I hope he will correct me) made such an analysis. He also said reggie Jackson uses top hand torque and cited other pull hitters as well. But these hitters thrive on middle-in pitches, the pitches you are saying are designed for bottom hand torque. I would appreciate some clarification. Thank you
> > >
> > > Brett
> > > Great Hitters, such as the ones I listed use top hand torque on all pitch locations. They also use good bottom hand torque. That is the pulling action of the bottom hand. While the top hand starts pulling back at initiation, it is pushing foward through the rest of swing, while the bottom hand is pulling at the same time. I think what Rql was reffering to was that Lesser Hitters-ones that don't use top hand torque are able to handle the middle-in pitches is because the bat-head has farther to travel til contact point and are able to generate enough batspeed, but on outside pitches, hitters that don't use top hand torque can't generate early enough batspeed to hit with any authority.
> > > The Hitman
> >
> >
> > Brett,
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> > It's just snapping your wrists through the hitting area.
> >
> >
> >I won't even try to understand that last comment by the one who didn't sign their name.
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> Hitman, please bear with me while I try to follow this. "While the top hand starts pulling back at initiation, it is pushing foward through the rest of swing, while the bottom hand is pulling at the same time." This is top hand torque, then, right? After top hand pulls back at initiation it pushes forward through rest of swing. But lesser hitters rely on bottom hand torque (your definition being "That is the pulling action of the bottom hand" )So what is the difference? So great hitters and lesser hitters use the bottom arm (actually don't they use both?). It seems like the only difference that distinguishes tht and bht is the stuff about the top hand pulling back at iniation.
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> So if I combine the concept of lesser hitters not pulling back at iniation with your conclusion that lesser hitters do not hit the outside pitch with authority, is it fair to draw the conclusion that the whole key to hitting the outside pitch with authority is "pulling back at iniation"? Because if it is fair for me to draw this conclusion, that brings up several questions.
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> # 1 The majors are filled with great power hitters who can pull a middle or inside pitch for power but who have trouble with the outside pitch (maybe that's why pitchers are trained to pitch away?). I think it would be unfair to say that in order to be a great hitter (and therefore not a lesser hitter)you must be able to hit the outside pitch with authority. Piazza and Sosa do well. Garvey did great on outside pitches. Are they the only ones who were not "lesser hitters"?
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> # 2 Not being a "lesser hitter" seems to rest on "pulling back at iniation ". If this is the case, can you graphically describe how to do this? Jack's tape does clearly show this (at least to me). Somewhere I read at your site something analagous to picking a guitar string but that's about it.
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> # 3 I assume that the purpose of "pulling back at iniation " is to facilitate a circular hand path. Are you saying that these various lesser hitters you cited do not have a circular hand path? I can see many youth players who might have a knob-straight-to-the-ball swing, but I have a multitude of clips showing most power hitters as well as non-power hitters with a circular hand path.
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> Hitman, RQL and Jack: I hope you won't in any way take my questions to be argumentative. I know that there has been a lot of hostile questions,answers and comments at this site. I assure you, my questions are purely in the spirit of learning and understanding, not hostility. Thank you very much.
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> > Brett,I was more argumenitive when I came here,so don't feel bad, you must go out and work on what we talk about to get a feel for it.Their are many good hitters that do really good on middle in pitches and have alot of trouble on pitches on outer 3rd,thus they may be 280 power hitters,just avg,Jack has said many of these hitters use bht only.They get little early bs so when they do go the other way its not with authority.Sheffield however gets earlt bs fromtht and then keeps it going with bht on the inside pitch.Brett bone has been hitting for power the other way.The tht idea to me is tough to do by actually pulling back with the top fingers it is more for me to keep my hands back as I bring my rear elbow down this action for me pulls the bat back with the fingers but it feels more like wrist action from the action of the elbow tome.Another big factor on hitting the o.s. pitch is having the lead bicep across the chest at contact to help torque.