Posted by: Major Dan (markj89@charter.net) on Mon Sep 16 05:43:02 2002

To All,
> > > >
> > > > Hitting is a very standard activity. There are differences in the size of balls (softball and baseball), distances vary from game to game. Bats are different but within a very narrow rang. The material the bat is made of makes little difference in mechanics. We have a round ball and bats that are the same shape with insignificant differences in size when it comes to mechanics.
> > > >
> > > > So, we have a very standardized universe of equipment. Hitters are all basically the same shape. Everyone's arms are in the same place as are their head and legs. They all operate the same. There are differences in size but the fundamental structure is the same for all hitters.
> > > >
> > > > The idea is to use the bat to hit the ball as hard as possible. Because of the physical characteristics of the bat and ball, hitting it hard requires more then a hard/fast swing. Maximum force comes from a balance between control and power. Hitting the ball in the middle is just as or all most important has the power from the bat speed.
> > > >
> > > > The act of hitting a ball is a physical act which is governed by the laws of physics. There are almost no situations is natural law where there are two equally best ways to do something. Because all the factors (equipment and the body) are almost identical, there is only one method for apply maximum force to a sphere with a bat. The differences that do exist are of no relevance to the basic mechanics of hitting the ball. The size of the batter or the bat the speed and size of the ball, etc, etc, etc, will have an impact on the results. But there is only one method of swinging that will give the control to hit the ball in the best place with a bat speed that will produce maximum force to the ball.
> > > >
> > > > I make this statement not because I intend to say what the best method is. But this issue is fundamental to the entire discussion. If you cannot agreee that there is a "one best method" then anything goes and all ideas are equal. This is unscientific and illogical.
> > > >
> > > > S. Procito
> > >
> > > "I make this statement not because I intend to say what the best method is." - then what's the point of even posting any of this??
> > >
> > > "Maximum force comes from a balance between control and power."
> > > Force = Mass X acceleration, it has nothing to do with where the bat hits the ball. If you wish to describe the parameters of the impact that give the greatest (what? exit veloctiy? angle of exit? both?) then you need a word other than force which DOES specifically describe "a hard/fast swing".
> > >
> > > "The act of hitting a ball is a physical act which is governed by the laws of physics." always true. It is also true that is governed by the laws of anatomy, physiology, neurophysiology, motor learning, and other sciences.
> > > Your 'one and only one way to swing' runs counter to a large body of knowledge in these fields. It also runs counter to our observations that even at the MLB level, there are multiple variations on swing mechanics.
> > > Beyond that, no hitter swings exactly the same way each time. And there are multiple paths within the body that create a similar result so that even swings that look the same may not have been produced by the exact same means.
> > >
> > > "If you cannot agree that there is a "one best method" then anything goes and all ideas are equal. This is unscientific and illogical."
> > > So you are saying that it is unscientific and illogical that Ichiro, Bonds, Arod, Nomar, Ted Williams, Mark McGuire, Aaron and Tony Gwynn use different methods yet are all great hitters?
> > > What method would make all but one of these (or maybe all of them?) better hitters. What makes you think that the variations in size, strength, reaction time, mentality/psychology, and other characteristics don't/didn't matter in how these players maximized their potential and became the hitters they are/were.??
> > >
> > > Either your knowledge is so revolutionary that baseball will never be the same again, or it is so trivial and general that it may be inconsequential.
> > > Why don't you just throw it out there so we can all learn something.
> > > Otherwise its hard to not think that you are just making noise to hear yourself talk. Which is it?
> >
> >
> > Dan,
> >
> > I want to point out that weather the batters you mentioned do or don't use the same mechanics is not relevant. I don't understand this obsession with looking at hitters in the pros and trying to learn something that might be applicable to what we as coaches of kids do.
> >
> > It has been stated her before by somebody who knows more then I do, that the pros are not good models. They are the biggest, fastest and strongest people in the game. They have played all their lives. For some, it is all they have ever done. Their life is baseball. Many use poor mechanics but make them work with pure strength, athletic ability and years and years of practice. They can make it work.
> >
> > That would the reason they may be using less than the mechanics we should teach kids and still be good hitters. If it were true that they are using different mechanics.
> >
> > The reason people "think" the people mentioned are using different methods is that many focus on every little movement they make. Where their toe is pointed, where their elbow is in the stance, which hand is providing torque, knee position and on and on and on.
> >
> > Since some people think that there are 'many ways' to hit, they will look at every minor and mostly meaningless movements and make them "the" answer. This is why people think that all these guys use different mechanics. Actually they aren't.
> >
> > F. J.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> Frank, I am concerned about your statement "It has been stated her before by somebody who knows more then I do, that the pros are not good models." Would you have any objections to sharing with us as to the identity of the person who made this statement? Thanks

Frank-
you said:

"It has been stated her before by somebody who knows more then I do, that the pros are not good models. They are the biggest, fastest and strongest people in the game. They have played all their lives. For some, it is all they have ever done. Their life is baseball. Many use poor mechanics but make them work with pure strength, athletic ability and years and years of practice. They can make it work. "

Maybe somebody said it, and if my memory is correct that is a JoeA-ism. But saying it does not make it true.
The logic of your statement is weak. Many, many athletes have played baseball all their lives. I had a long conversation with Lou Merloni, RedSox player a few years ago. He sadi that many or most players at the AA level could be major leaguers. They have the size, strength, athletic ability. Those who make it are usually the smarter ones, the ones with better work ethic, etc. While size and strength and athletic ability can get you to that point, other things weed out the 'finalists'.
However, those who never make it to Double A are the ones with poor mechanics or lack of other abilities.
In the end, major league hitters are the best hitters around. If there were better, those better hitters would be in the show.
While there is a range of variation in MLB hitters, it is a relatively narrow range. To the untrained eye they pretty much look alike aside from stylistic things like funky stances, etc.
Even the 'bad' hitters are really good.
It is both reasonable and optimal to use the best of the MLB hitters as the models of hitting. After a good analysis of what is common to many to MLB hitters, you can come to some conclusions about what is necessary to succeed at the top levels and what comprises a 'best' swing.
Proper swing mechanics are not different for MLB players or Little League players. There is no reason to teach different mechanics. The core, basic mechanics are the same. As you said, two arms attached to the trunk, two legs, etc. At that level, everyone is the same. THe goal is the same, the bat and ball are the same.
LEarning a fundamentally sound swing from the beginning is the best way to help a player be the best he/she can be, to reach their potential.
Do you think you change your mechanics at each level and then when you get to the pros the best athletes with the worst swings make top dollar? Doubtful. You can learn a correct swing at a young age, modeled on the pros and grow into and with that swing and take it as far as you can.