Posted by: Mark H. () on Thu Feb 7 21:39:54 2002

>>>Pitchers land open, and they are still able to use their legs to generate velocity. Your hips are less restricted when you land open, that is why the all of the great hitters in the game land with the front foot open while keeping the shoulders back. I think Griffey has the greatest seperation at 45 degrees between hips and shoulders most likely cuz his neck is double jointed, but i think you maximize your legs when you land open and don't restrict your hips. The goal in the swing I believe is maximum seperation, so the large muscles can pull the smaller muscles through and maximize shoulder rotation. The Hitman <<<
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> Hey Jack
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> Did u read both of my post, i forgot to attatch my name to one. But I said it would be ludacris to have your hips completely open during the swing. I said barely open, like at 190-200 degrees. Would u think your front leg would be in a better position to provide leverage if it was closed or open? Or hips closed or slightly open. I think its a no brainer you would clearly have more leverage with the hips slightly open and the shoulders back. But i think its sufficient to say that only the upperbody,(above hips) counter rotates. I mean its fine to wind up like Juan Gonzales with his big leg kick, but by the time heel plants, u need to have separation, and not a one piece swing. The Hitman
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> Hi Hitman
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> I am sorry if I misunderstood your position. You used a “pitcher” as an example of opening the hips – they do stride to nearly fully open hips. My words were not meant as much for you as for those that teach “maximum separation” before shoulder rotation is initiated. And there are many coaches who believe that because pitchers stride to open hips, it is also the correct position for the baseball swing. Those mechanics are basically the same as the 3-stage drill I so disagree with: (1) stride, (2) open hips while keeping shoulders closed, (3) swing (or throw). That is what many consider “maximum” separation. Others would say that striding to maximum separation may not be attainable, but this is what the batter should try to obtain.
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> Hitman, I am sure that if you read my material, you know I teach the “inward turn” to set up the launch position. I have often stated that during the inward turn the shoulders rotate 20 to 30 degrees past the hips. Therefore, the hips already lead the shoulders (and hands) before rotation is initiated. – No one I can think of teaches the “one piece” (hips and shoulders inline while rotating) swing you spoke of. Further separation (past the 20 - 30 degrees obtained with the inward turn) of the hips may occur due to the load of overcoming the inertia of the upper-body and accelerating the bat. --- But that separation is load generated and should not be from a timing sequence for deliberately allowing the hips to open while keeping the shoulders back.
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> PS - You stated in a post on Jan. 4 : “I was thinking that the greater the separation between the hips and the shoulders the higher the batspeed will be, as long as all the slack has been taken out of the lead shoulder.” --- Would not the greatest separation occur with the hips fully open and the shoulders closed?
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> Jack Mankin
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Jack,

Have you watched Epstein's first tape? It does a good job of addressing this area. As I've said before, I like Mike from the ground to the shoulders but you are unparalleled from the shoulders to the bathead IMO. When it comes to tying both together, Tom makes sense to me.

Mark H.