Posted by: Shawn (bellshw2@aol,com) on Wed Dec 12 07:08:34 2001

>>> I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that you buy into Epstein's "pinball" theory, which is that you swing exactly the same way on an outside pitch as you do an inside pitch, the only difference being where the ball is contacted. <<<
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi HitMan
> > > > >
> > > > > From what I wrote above, I would think that it would be evident to most readers that I do not agree with “Epstein's "pinball" theory.”
> > > > >
> > > > > Jack Mankin
> > > >
> > > > Tom's speculation:I think this goes along with Jack's comment last month that timing is more important than ball placement in determining the contact point.For the outside pitch,torso acceleration is slightly delayed relative to the inside location allowing top hand torque to swing the bathead out a little farther before the hips transfer momentum to the torso.This creates a higher load so that torso rotation then proceeds more slowly for the outside location.There is less torso turn by the time of contact.During this relatively limited torso turn the efficient transfer of torso energy requires the hands to torque the bathead near extension quickly then allow some casting of the lead arm prior to contact.The casting of the lead arm rapidly depletes the torso of energy(torso stops)so it is important to make contact before deceleration occurs.Timing would ideally create contact with the sweetspot perpendicular to the pitch.Slight "mistiming" either way would keep the ball in play.
> > > >
> > > > Just waiting for the ball to get deep would theoretically give less batspeed with slightly late contact going foul.
> > > > >
> > >
> > > It has to do with optimum bat angle at contact and to a certain extent optimum bat angle takes precedence over maximum bat speed.
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > It completely depends on the hitter. You 'can' rotate very well and hit the outside pitch. One player was discussing how she try's to hit the outside pitch and it involved blocking the front side and extension. This discussion came about when I mentioned Edgar needed to get off his frontside, and I said he wasn't using his lowerbody on the outside pitch.
> >
> > When I showed her that you can increase and decrease your hip/shoulder displacement for pitch location, she looked very confused. This player is forever an arms and hands hitter, with major problems during launch. The blocking technique has given her a poor visualization on releasing later or staying back, no feel for what's inbetween her feet and her hands. Thankfully I do not work with this hitter.
> >
> > How much casting is involved? (perpendicular to balls flight) or more THT. THT (early acceleration) will allow the ball to get deeper, as long as it's early torque. I call it casting, because the hand path does get wider and farther away from the body.
> >
> > Another player (good hitter) worked on the outside pitch to much last off-season. She was driving the ball to Right and center and forgot how to turn on the inside pitch early in the season. Smoked everything middle/out.
> >
> > We are what we practice, and that practice (drills, etc.) changes your mechanics (and timing for better or worse).
> >
> >
> Shawn (and all) -
> great discussion. What is emerging IMO is that there is a way for rotational mechanics to be used to hit outside pitches. THere are also non-rotational ways. I agree with Shawn that there is an element of casting in the swing that is productive. Essentially, if the lower body rotation is transferred successfully to the upper body, there is sufficient energy (batspeed ultimately) to hit the ball well. Shoulder rotation delivers this batspeed. Casting, or releasing the bat from the shoulder rotation, is the equivalent of swinging the rock at the end of the string and the letting go. The rock goes 90 degrees (perpendicular) to the string at release. The bat tends to do the same - come flying out of shoulder rotation. The hope is that it flies into the ball. Timing is critical - casting can be bad or good.
> Bad casting:
> two main kinds
> - the obvious one, arms fly out as soon as shoulders turn, resulting in a long slow Little League swing.
> - the less obvious one, arms fly out on an inside pitch just early enough to create a bat angle at contact that pulls/hooks the ball foul.
> These two look different but have in common that the release pulls the top hand arm to extension before contact. If this is too obvious, coaches call it a sweep.
> Good casting:
> bat releases from shoulder rotation at contact or close enough before contact that batspeed is added momentarily into contact but the bat head angle is not significantly changed. This is really hard to time on inside pitches well (they tend to pull foul if you are just a bit early) but adds reach and power on outside pitches as well as adding a reasonable timing margin.
>
> Jack has emphsized that both the amount of tht and the angle of the back elbow vary according to inside/outside pitch location. Essentially, I think this encourages an early cast when the elbow is pulled back extra for an outside pitch. It discourages the cast for an inside pitch - both good things.
>
> It is also true that once the bat casts, bottom hand torque is at a minimum. And that is true for outside pitches. But bht is very important on middle in pitches where the cast happens at or after contact. I wonder if bht replaces or causes the late cast for inside pitches.?
>
> Shawn-
> lots of hitters, including RQL, suggest the 'look away, react in' approach. I think it fits what I've said above. But it requires practicing both.
> Some players have made a living by making every pitch an outside pitch (McGuire, etc.) and standing off the plate. Probably tall guys mostly.
> Some have made a living making every pitch an inside pitch (Williams, Frank Robinson, etc.) Epstein refers to this often. IF you crowd the plate, you don't cast, you turn on everything. Typically quick guys and tall guys are often not as quick.
> The all-around hitters are more likely to be look away react in types (Brett, Etc.).
> Seems like all the non-rotational ways to hit outside pitches are much less effective.
> Any thoughts on any of this?
> Major Dan

Hi Dan,

Nice, I will look at this after work and try to put a 'third' swing (outside, rear view) with the Hank clip. (problems with video codecs on some clips I compressed with a winnov codec after upgrading to Windows XP).

Regardless, I will comment on the looking In or Out theory. As a hitter I always looked for the ball inside or outside, depending on my plan. Mechanics execute the plan and I SELDOM aborted the plan when I didn't get my pitch.

At a recent clinic UW hitting coach said you look in and adjust out.

Shawn