Posted by: Jack Mankin (MrBatspeed@aol.com) on Sat Jan 13 16:20:16 2007

>>> In my opinion, you correctly identified the movement of tht, but poorly defined it.

It is way more than "fingers pulling on the handle". The bat is launched as the forearms pronate and supinate to create the movement.

That movement, the forearm pronation and supination, launches the swing. It does not simply take the barrel around the corner for bht and shoulder turn to do the rest. There simply is no time for that.

It is done in several ways. Bonds and Sheffield and others have a large tip of the bat. Others float the barrel backward prior to launch. Yet others go from a static start.

For a large tip see www.teachersbilliards.com/hitzone/barryted.gif
For a float see www.teachersbilliards.com/hitzone/granderson2.gif
For a static start see www.teachersbilliards.com/hitzone/mtucker.gif

Distinction needs to be made between the load and the unload. The Second Engine, the use of the forearms to energize the bat rearward at launch is demonstrated by all three clips. That is the unload. That resembles your tht but it is much more than fingers pulling on the handle. The load of the Second Engine....Bonds/Sheffield's tip and Granderson's float resembles your prelaunch torque.

This issue becomes "when" and "how much". Fingers pulling on the handle followed by bht and the lead shoulder pulling on the lead arm is simply a recipe for failure. It is very slow developing, relatively speaking. Jack, you can not hit when the force that you generate is going to the base coach or the dugout and not into the ball. That is exactly what "the lead shoulder pulling toward the catcher in an effort to make the barrel come around" does. You either pull off the ball, or you slow your swing down to stay in the zone. And, you have no pop to the opposite field. Pitchers are very good at making sure your timing is upset. The shoulder turn swing is not feasible. Once the shoulders commit in the shoulder turn swing, there is no turning back. And, in a shoulder rotation swing, they have to commit too early to get the barrel to the zone. There is no adjustability in that type of swing.

If you swing with the forearm rotation you get early batspeed, additional speed and adjustability.

Not until you swing with your hands/forearms (Second Engine) will you understand the benefits. They are HUGE. The Second Engine gives a hitter much more read time because the bat is not only quicker but faster.

One of these two hitters resists shoulder rotation and the other rotates his shoulders. The distinction is obvious.

www.teachersbilliards.com/hitzone/boggsteve.gif

High level hitters turn the barrel in their hands they do not pull the knob with their shoulders. <<<

Hi Teacherman

Our discussion is a good representation of what a discussion board is all about. You presented your views and I on record with thousands of posts defining my research of the swing. Readers can now study our opposing views and draw their own conclusions.

Jack Mankin