Posted by: Major Dan (markj89@charter.net) on Thu Oct 18 09:25:04 2001

Jack, i was wondering what great mechanics Mickey Mantle used to hit it over 600 feet, it seems like a mix of linear and rotational, a huge body foward movement, but a good hand path, and added batspeed using tht, i found a clip of his right handed swing http://www.theswearingens.com/mick/swing.htm
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> > > > > > > > Hi
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> > > > > > > > Correction the ball hit it that was the longest homerun in the major leagues ever was " 562Ft"
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> > > > > > > Hey Guys,
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> > > > > > > Do you think that people like Mickey Mantle and almost any good hitter in the majors are such big, strong gifted athelets that they can hit the ball hard and long without using the best mechanics?
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> > > > > > > Is it possible that they have played for so many years and with their great athletic ability use poor mechanics and still be successful?
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> > > > > > > Do you think that it's possible that over many years of playing that they develop little adjustments suited only to their on particular abilities and restrictions so that their swing is only for them?
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> > > > > > > Could this be the resason for the many opionions about the "correct" swing? Could it be that there are many opinons because you are studying guys who could hit the ball hard and long standing on their head? (this is an over statement to make a point. Don't go crazy and address it) I have seen guys lunge over the plate to hit an outside pitch and put it out of the park.
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> > > > > > > Do you think it might be possible that a 6 ft 2, 225 lbs, all mussle and bone 30 year old athlete who has been playing baseball since he was 5 years old can do things that your 5ft 1, 115 lb 14 yr old can't do?
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> > > > > > > What do you think? huh? Do you think that it just might be possible??? Huh?
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> > > > > > > Joe A.
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> > > > > > Joe,
> > > > > > Everything you said is POSSIBLE, but not necessarily true in every case. Those hitters who use "bad" mechanics and hit the ball hard, can hit it even harder if they utilized "good" mechanics. Even though individuals may benefit by SMALL adjustments, there are certain "absolutes" that apply to the swing, which are required to hit the ball hard. Good rotation is probably the most important of these, followed by torque and a circular handpath.
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> > > > > > And to answer your question "Do you think it might be possible that a 6 ft 2, 225 lbs, all mussle and bone 30 year old athlete who has been playing baseball since he was 5 years old can do things that your 5ft 1, 115 lb 14 yr old can't do?": Naturally it's possible, but not if that 6 ft 2, 225 lbs, all muscle and bone 30 year old athlete who has been playing since he was 5 uses horrible mechanics. If the 14 year old uses much better mechanics, thus generating more batspeed, he will hit the ball harder. Joe, I am not doubting the benefits of strength, experience, and adjustments but simply trying to bring up a very important point: MECHANICS MEAN ALOT!!! Sure, other factors are crucial too, but if the "absolutes" for batspeed are not present in the swing, strength, experience, and adjustments can be tossed out the window.
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> > > > > > Also, it seems that you feel everyone on this site advocates that all ballplayers use the same swing. If this is in fact true, you bring a valid point that there is no such thing as the single "perfect" swing that everyone is looking for. Comfort and the ways to achieve comfort, and adjustments in the swing vary from individual to individual. This is going to change the appearance and style of the swing. But again I want to stress that although the swing may appear to change completely, the absolutes will still be there if it is a good swing.
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> > > > > > Hope this helps to put things in perspective and wasn't too confusing!
> > > > > > JC
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> > > > > J C
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> > > > > I think you missed my point. The point is that by watching hitters like Mantle or Bonds or any "pro" you may not, because of their exceptional skill, strength and speed, be seeing proper mechanics.
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> > > > > And, if you are looking to see which ones use proper mechanics then you must already know what they are and you don't need to study the pros.
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> > > > > Joe A.
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> > > > I don't think there is one "perfect swing" or "proper mechanics". Each person is different. Gwynn "throws the knob of the bat at the ball". According to this site those are "bad mechanics" yet his lifetime batting average is WELL over 300. Williams used the rotational technique to hit 400, and Bonds used rotational to hit 73 homers. Whatever technique works best for YOU would then be the "perfect mechanics"...for you that is. It's more than mechanics too...strength, flexibility. ANd don't forget the most important thing, the brain, strike zone judgement, determination, burning desire to succeed, effort and focus. All of that helped Mickey Mantle to hit a ball well over 400 or 500 feet.
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> > > Guys,
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> > > I would suggest to you that when a guy like mantle hits a ball over 500 feet, that it was a comination of exceptional strength, quickness and proper, if not perfect, mechanics.
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> > > It also it proves my point. Balls hit long distances are very rare. Even hitters who have done it don't do it every year. These hits are remembered for years and are often marked by some type of plaque or something in some parks.
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> > > Since very few balls are hit over 450, let alone 500, and the strength and quickness are a constant, then cant we can conclude that the batter is not using proper mechanics for 99.99999999% of his swings.
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> > > Joe A.
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> > Interesting point, Joe. I think of it just a little differently. The 500ft+ shots are the rare perfect ones for sure.
> > To quote the late, great Bobby Jones (golf) "In a season's play, I could perform at my best for not over half a dozen rounds. In any one of those best rounds, I would not strike more than six shots, other than putts, exactly as I intended."
> > And that is with a ball sitting still while hitting.
> > The complex interplay of variables that affect every swing make a perfect hit rare. Buck O'Neill in Ken Burns' Baseball miniseries said he heard the ball hit with a special sound three times in his 50+ years of baseball. And each hit was an extraordinary homerun. THe first was by Babe Ruth, the second by Josh Gibson, and the third by Bo Jackson.
> > Every swing is full of adjustments to count, location, speed, spin, anticipation, batter's balance, etc., etc.
> > When all forces come together, magic happens. Its magic because it happens so seldom.
> > I wouldn't call the rest of the swings 'improper mechanics', unless your definition of 'improper' is anything less than perfect. Some adjustments affect things more than others.
> > And remember that baseball is a game, not a distance hitting contest. Tony Womack's swing in game 5 of the NLDC game vs. the Cardinals was not a mechanical masterpiece - it was a great adjustment to a tough pitch, resulting in a 180' dying quail that won the series. I think he'd take that over a 380' drive to centerfield anytime. Was it improper mechanics? or a great adjustment? or a bad swing with a lucky result?
> > additional thought - you can use not just proper but perfect mechanics on a swing and fail to connect.
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> Dan,
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> I appericate your comments but, what is your logic for someone makeing a perfect swing and failing to connect???
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> But you are making my point again. They can get hits with very poor mechanics. The fact that they might be "adusting" isn't really relevenat. The swing was poor and they hit the ball hard. Isn't that exactly what I am saying.
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> My point has always been that pros are not good models on which to base teaching methods.
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> Joe A.
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I just don't agree with your conclusions. Pros are the best models - they do it better and succeed more than anyone else. That's why they are playing and not someone else.
As you know, you have to know what to look for. You see what you expect to see, what fits your model, what you already believe or know.
The good swings of the best players should be the models we use.

IMO making adjustments IS relevant. How a player makes adjustments to his basic mechanics is critical. Those who can't, have holes in their swings and ultimately fail. The swings that allow the most successful adjustments with the least effort will succeed most.

If you don't use the pros as a model, who do you use?