Posted by: rql () on Mon Jul 23 19:30:41 2001

tom....to sumamrize what i think i understand from your most recent post on the power curve:::::::::: the key is too "energize the torso" which happens after front heel plant......then swing, and with a middle or inside pitch you have some margin for error.....but for an outside pitch, delay "energizing the torso", which means the swing will have to be that much quicker and more precise........if i understand right, it still seems backwards to me.....generally i think of an outside pitch as giving you more, not less time and margin for error..................................................and i still would like you to tell me where , in your model the outside pitch would be contacted in relation to the inside pitch,,,,for example, if you contact the inside pitch 18 inches in front of home plate, would you contact the outside pitch 18 inches, 12 inches, -6 inches or where in front of home plate?.........and if you contact an inside pitch with the bat angle being aprox. 30 to 45 degrees relative to the front edge of home plate, what would the bat angle be on an outside pitch?.....and for an outside pitch, how many inches of "upswing" would there be before contact?......all i want to do is understand, and answers to these questions will increase my understanding ( or at least help me to ask more questions!!!!).....respectfully, grc.............
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> grc-
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> I'll keep describing things and see if it helps.It might help to refer to an old setpro post showing side by side Nomar for the inside and out location at
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> http://www.setpro.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000394.html
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> Also remember this is Tom's idiosyncratic swing description and not any generally held view I have heard others endorse.
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> Let's say each swing starts generically for a given hitter/pitcher combo.You start/get the body sideways,you separate /twist the body then you unseparate/untwist the body.The untwisting upper body drives the circular hanpath.Momentum transfer from the lower body energizes the torso,the bathead firing while the hands stay in sucks energy out of the torso to turn the bat.When the bathead is nearing full extension,the hands extend away from the body sucking whatever enegy remains out of the torso.
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> The key to swing timing is the timing of momentum transfer out of the lower body into the upperbody.In the generic swing,the lower half opens,the upper half stays closed(twist)then the upperhalf starts opening sometime at or after front heel plant.Whether the upper half is still closing or has reversed and started opening,the transfer of momentum does not start until the hips(ideally)reach maximum angular velocity,link up to the torso,then rapidly decelerate-the rotational whip of the body which results in momentum transfer.This deceleration can not happen until after the front heel comes down because the weight bearing front leg is necessary(but not sufficient) for deceleration.The bathead needs to stay in until momentum transfer has energized the torso.The faster the bathead fires(extends while hands stay in)the more efficient is the transfer of energy from the torso to the bat.Once the bathead is near extension the hands can extend with some further transfer of energy.The action of the back leg is often a good indicator of when momentum transfer is happening and can be a key for analyzing the sequence of the swing.Let's look at Nomar.
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> These clips are synched for contact,but instead let's assume his heel starts dropping at the same time for both pitches because his brain hasn't calculated the exact contact spot yet.So the swing program(starting dance with pitcher)will have started earlier for the left clip,another way of saying contact is a little later fot the left clip/outside location.
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> The relative timing of heel down to momentum transfer is what you need to look for.Momentum transfer is signified by the back toe starting to drag behind the front leg.Prior to this there is just hip turn as signified by the back ankle just turning over.However,when the hip turn decelerates to whip momentum upward,the back toe starts its dragging.This continues until the hands start to get away from the body.When the hands get away from the body,reactive torque goes down the torso turning the hips and back ankle back.When you look carefully for this you can almost always see the reactive torque associated with the hands getting away from the torso turning the back hip and ankle back.The toe drag is only seen in those that do keep the hands in and get the timing right to get the lower body momentum into the swing,and even then it isn't always obvious because of the way the back foot asisists in setting up and maintaining the swing axis.
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> Now for Nomar to turn on the inside pitch,as soon as the front heel gets down,the back heel gets up and the toe starts dragging because he has to brace up and decelerate the hips right away.For the outside location the hips keep turning and the back ankle keepsturning over longer so that toe drag and momentum transfer are delayed relative to front heel plant..While the lower body timing is proceeding along these separate tracks,they upper body program is adjusting as well.For the outside pitch,there is less early torso turn,but instead a wider swing radius is being set up and the tht is getting the bathead ready to fire out as fast as possible as soon as momentum transfer starts.If this doesn't happen,Nomar will be behind the power curve-it will be too late to get the energy out of the torso.The relative timing of momentum transfer between links of the chain is more demanding and the chain is more easily interrupted for the outside location.
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> In the case of the inside pitch there is more prolonged toe drag that starts sooner getting much more energy into the torso and much more leeway for when and how fast the bathead fires.In both cases contact would be maximized by launch timing that would have the bat at 90 degrees to the pitch at contact.For the outside pitch these mechanics are more forgiving than either letting the ball get deeper(pinball-more behind power curve because of shorter swing radius and slower firing of bathead)or hitting around the ball(extending handpath early and getting behind power curve/out of sequence by loss of circular handpath before bathead has extended).
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> So the outside contact point will be further in front than the pinball mechanic due to the wider swing radius/ball not getting as deep.It will still be less in front than the contact for inside location.
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>tOM,EXPLAIN JUST WHAT YOU MEAN BY THE CONTACT MAXIMIZED WHEN BARREL IS 90 DEGREES TO PITCH.ALSO I SAW A PICTURE OF GREG VAUGHN'S GRAND SLAM TO OPP. FIELD JUST AFTER CONTACT,THE BAT WAS WELL OUT IN FRONT OF HIS BODYAND THE REAR ELBOW LOOKED TO BE ABOUT 45 DEGREES,I WOULD THINK AT CONTACT HIS BARREL WOULD BE NO FURTHER BACK THAN HIS HIPS AND THE REAR ELBOW AROUND 75 DEGREES COMING OUT OF THE 90.qUES.DO YOU FEEL IT IS MANDATORY THAT THE BARREL BE BEHIND THE HANDLE AT CONTACT IN ORDER TO HIT IT TO OPP. FIELD.GREGS BAT LOOKED PERPENDICULAR TO BALL IN PICTURE BUT THE BALL WAS ABOUT 2 FEET AWAY FROM BAT ALREADY.
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