Posted by: RQL () on Thu Jul 19 18:22:24 2001

>>> Jack,I agree it can be taken out of context by many coaches but these are great hitters and they have learned to incorporate a simple thought to produce the entire swing.I used almost the same words is why I felt strong that it could work as long as it is taught right.Sling the hands would work well also for some.often the way certain words flow through your lips and mind are what makes for a cue,try them both using clear the hips 1st and pass it on to students.A bigger issue here to me though is what is making the hands feel thrown or slung or released.Jack,I feel torque does little without shoulder rotation and I believe shoulder rotation does little without torque.Think of a car that starts out in 1st gear [hips]then smoothly transfers to 2nd[shoulder turn initiated] then jumps into 3rd where it can take off[torque being applied and together they accelerate the bat to another gear.If we say the throwing of ,or slinging of the hands comes from only shoulder rotation then I think we are missing it.Shoulders are essential,but your explanation of what torque is has really opened my eyes to the use of the hands and forearms.Its their relationship and timing with the shoulders that I feel give these hitters the feeling of throwing their hands. <<<
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> Hi RQL
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> I sorry if anything I stated led you to believe that a good swing did not require the use of the arms to supply torque to the bat as well as shoulder rotation. But a major problem I find with hitters using top-hand-torque is they are not only using the hands and arms to apply torque to the bat, they are also using them to bring the hands forward. This normally occurs as the batter lowers the back-elbow to accelerate the bat-head back toward the catcher. Instead of also pulling the top-hand back as the elbow lowers, the batter brings the hands forward. This causes earlier separation of the lead-arm - more flex in the lead-elbow and less linkage. It also results in premature lowering of the back-forearm. Now, the rotational plane of the back-wrist is no longer in the plane of the swing.
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> The bottom line is, using the arms to accelerate the hands instead of keeping them back and allowing shoulder rotation to bring the hands, leads to a weaker swing, wrist binds and a wavy swing plane. --- The hands and arms are used to apply torque (hands applying force from opposing directions - a balanced system), the hand-path is accelerated by the (1) rotation of the shoulders, (2) the bats reaction to angular displacement and (3) the sweep of the back-forearm as it lowers from vertical to horizontal.
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> At the start of the swing, the most active hand is the top-hand. During initiation, the top-hand is pulling back toward the catcher -- I do not think that could be thought of as "throwing the hands" - at lease not forward. --- At the end of the swing, the bottom-hand is also pulling back toward the catcher - So I just cannot see this action as throwing the hands.
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> Jack Mankin
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> Jack,I believe I responded to this one in the post on upper body,where the feel is in the middle.