Posted by: grc () on Thu Jul 5 09:41:03 2001

"the 45-degree angle in the position of power is the most efficient angle to get into the correct approach angle to the ball........during the approach to the ball, as the knob gets to the front hip area, the barrel should be about shoulder height.....the angle at this point is flexible, as long as the barrel of the bat is above the hands...........this statement was made by a prominent hitting instructor....what especially intrigued me was the statement "as the knob gets to the front hip area, the barrel should be about shoulder height"......am i missing something here?.....if i look at any 4-to-5-frame clip or picture of any major league hitter, by about the 3rd frame the bat is parrallel to the ground, ready to be released , and the hands (knob) are about half way between the two hips (blastsystem calls this the "lag position")......can anyone think of a major leaguer who , when the knob has already past this halfway point and near the front hip, STILL has the bat shoulder height?.............respectfully, grc.....
>
> grc,
>
> what seems very lucid to some, can be ambiguous to others. words (written) must be read, trying very hard to understand the intent of the writer. not meaning to lecture, let me demonstrate.
>
> the "prominent hitting instructor", you referred to, said,"...during the approach to the ball, as the knob gets to the front hip area, the barrel should be about shoulder height..."
> grc, you said, "can anyone think of a major leaguer who, when the knob has already past this halfway point and near the front hip, STILL has the bat shoulder height?"
>
> grc, you are assuming that you must be past the halfway point to be near the front hip with the knob of the bat. i would tend to agree, but is that what he meant?
> he said, "...as the knob gets TO the front hip area,..."
> "TO" can mean:
> in the direction of
> toward
> on the way to
> en route for
> just before
> headed for
>
> can the prominent hitting instructor mean "just before"? perhaps.
>
> continuing:
>
> you said, "...STILL has the bat shoulder height?"
> he said, "...the barrel should be about shoulder height..."
> "...bat..." vs. "...barrel..."
> big diff. all the bat vs. part of the bat.
>
> sooooo, the barrel can be "...about..." shoulder height (at least the rear shoulder) just before the knob gets to the front hip area. that's if that's what the prominent hitting instructor meant.
> have i seen batter's that do this? yes, especially hitter's that, when they coil, keep the bat very close to their head and their hands closer to their body than others. Examples: Mo Vaugh, Bonds, etc.
> not so much - Griffey, O'Neill, etc.
>
> in answer to your question, "...can anyone think of a major leaguer who, when the knob has already past this halfway point and near the front hip, STILL has the bat (meaning the entire bat - i interpret) shoulder height?"
> yes, tony gwynn for one, and musial for another. primarily when your behind in the count and get a ball that's up in the strike zone.
>
> a note:
> i was always taught to "stay on top of the ball" (for the first part of the swing, that is). i can still hear my coach say, "keep your hands above the ball, and the barrel of the bat above your hands". do i still advocate this? for the first part of the swing, yes. BUT TO WHAT POINT IN THE SWING? that depends on the pitch.
>
> was i lucid or ambiguous?
> ray porco




ray....thanks for your response....i'll respond point by point......but first, just for the sake of clarity in my defintions, i would like to describe what blastsystem.com refers to as the "lag position"....if nothing else, the lag position is a useful reference point in discussing various phases of hitting.....the lag position: the half way point in the swing where the bat is parrallel to the ground, ready to be released....i have observed that almost all major leaguers, when in the lag position, have their hands (or knob) about 1/2 way between the front and back foot.....also at this point, the hips have generally turned about 80 degrees...not full rotation but close to it......i can show you clip after clip that confirms these observations (hands half way between front/back foot and hips turned about 80 degrees).......now to your response.....(1) the meaning of "to"....i take that to mean when the knob reaches, arrives at....but no matter how you define "to", i think it is clear that he is saying that the bat will not br ready to be released until a point well beyond the point described in the lag position.....in other words,for the conventional major leaguer, from lag position with the knob about 1/2 way between the front/back foot ( or 1/2 way between the front/back hip), the bat is parrallel to the ground and is ready to be released......but HE is saying that even with the knob well past this "half way point" (lag position where the bat is parrallel to the ground)the bat is STILL not parrallel to the ground!!!!.....so if you do not "release" the bat at lag position, and if, even when the knob of the bat is "to", "near", whatever to the front hip with the bat STILL not being parrallel to the ground (so therefore, obviously still not ready to be released), exactly WHEN is he saying bathead SHOULD be released?.....in effect, what he is saying is to ectend your arms straight out to the pitcher with the bat still point to the sky, THEN try to swing the bat!!!!!.......i'm sure that this is not the intended result, but try to follow his instructions and that is what will happen, waiting until hands are over the front foot and then using your wrists to swing the bat..............

(2)you said "sooooo, the barrel can be "...about..." shoulder height (at least the rear shoulder) just before the knob gets to the front hip area. that's if that's what the prominent hitting instructor meant.
> have i seen batter's that do this? yes, especially hitter's that, when they coil, keep the bat very close to their head and their hands closer to their body than others. Examples: Mo Vaugh, Bonds, etc.".....ray.....we're talking about two different things here.....what you are describing is something many hitters do in their stride and in the FIRST HALF OF THE SWING....i have pictures and clips of vaughn and bonds, and at lag position they look just like any other major leaguer, bat parrallel to the ground and knob about 1/2 way between the 2 hips.......but what hudgens is describing is the bat being vertical way past this half way point......it boils down to: when do you release the bathead (a) when hands/knob are about half way between the hips or (b) when the arms are stretched out as far as they can be stretched out and the hands are ober the front foot?....................(3) gwynn and musial......i haven't seen clips of musial, but i have seen gwynn hit this way, although not to the extreme degree described by hudgens..............................................................


SUMMARY............if you get a bat & do exactly what hudgens is saying, you will see for yourself that the result will be releasing the bathead near the front foot rather than from the half way point between the front and back foot....this will result in much less hip rotation and will require more wrist action.......................respectfully, grc.......