Posted by: RQL () on Wed Jun 27 18:25:02 2001

GRC,been on vacation,back at it now.Have'nt read much of Epstein but pinball is good analogy.However we are getting into areas of interpreting what someone says and what they mean.To me in the early part of the swing the knob is facing the ss in rotation and to me the hands are going there also, but do not have to come out of chp.See the hands are facing many directions as they go in a circle and early in the swing they are going towards the ss and then curve at pitcher then 2nd then 1st and finally back at catcher,maybe think of bottom of hands doing the facing.I also think Tim once said his son was too circular and pulling off the ball then he went to a little extension near impact after initial chp to stay on the ball longer and I believe this is what I did.Think of circular with a punch of the top fist towards ss for lefty for the extension and rear elbow tight to body.Epstein is describing pure chp with no extension into the ball,this calls for more precise timing of sweet spot contact I believe.The last dilema is bat arc so early.With your sons linear swing he is coming down further out front,thus a different swing,but with tht,the barrel I think lays down on plane and starts up earlier causing the barrel to be rising earlier up into a late ball contact.The shear strength of these guys today are helping create enough early power for these guys today to reach the wall and beyond as long as they get to develop speed from some chp through that strength and they have the fat part of bat on the center of ball at correct trajectory.
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> >hi rql...i hope you had a nice vacation......it's so hard to articulate what i see and think i observe, but i'm going to try and rephrase ......this is what i don't understand about tophand torque/circular hand path on an outside pitch: on an INSIDE pitch, using the tip/top of the bat as a reference point, from launch to contact the bat travels aprox. 6 feet.........only in the last 18 inches or so before contact does the bat start traveling from level to up.....but even with the bat being in the "upswing" only the last 1/4 of the total distance it travels, that 18 inches of upswing seems to be sufficient with plenty of room for error.............but on the outside pitch (assuming that you contact the ball aprox 1 1/2 feet or so deeper in on you)the bat travels only aprox. 4 1/2 feet, and there is little or no "upswing" by the time the bat meets ball.....so an error of only 1 inch or so can mean simply hitting a ground ball.................................but my son, by slightly drawing in the hands, has subconsciously figured out how to develop more "upswing" on the outside pitch, and make the bat path flatter than it would be by using tht/chp......of course the dilemma to this is that what works well for him on the outside pitch does not work well on the inside pitch.......and the easy solution would be for him to swing his usual way on the outside pitch and apply jack's principles on the inside pitch........but....easier said than done.....comments appreciated.....respectfully, grc......>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GRC,I'm not an authority by any means so always take it with a grain of salt.My thought is that just like your son makes adjustments to get more upswing inside out so can you get more upswing early in the swing with tht.The top hand can control more pulling back ,making the bat go down and driving up early with the top hand along with adjustments in posture.See bht allows more pulling forward more downward movement before going back up and you get the idea of your still going down on rear of plate and most slo mos at setpro were of middle in pitches.Look at edmonds at setpro on my Mccarver thread and picture him making an adjustment in his swing for the away pitch.Also rose on the chp that tim put up there,the ball is down the middle and he is up into it near the front of plate but if he can go up at front of plate or out in front I think they can adjust and go up further back,remember the adjustment can make the swing different.Not just the pinball idea and 1 swing as Jack and Epstein have said but close to it with some minor adjustments in posture and more quickly going down and back up.This is where my idea on getting things going more closely together over a shorter distance with tht and driving the pitch further back rather than dragging it out over the long swing out front and bht.I did often hit like your son on pitches on the outer third and then turned on it from middle in,this gave me my 400 avg. and allowed me shots at power as well.