Posted by: () on Fri Jun 22 07:55:58 2001

> That was the best explanation in this thread Major Dan. Any of you who
> > > have ever seen an upper level mens fastpitch pitcher will have no
> > > doubt in their minds that a ball can rise due to trajectory, speed,
> > > and backspin. There are/were also many pitchers who could throw the
> > > low rise that looked like it was coming in below your knee and in the
> > > last 5-8 feet before the plate it jumped into the strike zone. I have
> > > seen girls that could throw this type of pitch albeit less
> > > consistently but in all cases they had to alreadt posess the speed
> > > along with the backspin mechanics to achieve it. A little breeze
> > > blowi
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > Once you've seen it, you have a hard time reconciling what you have seen with those who claim science says it can't rise. Maybe it doesn't rise, but those who are smug about it reveal the level of pitching they have been privileged to watch. Obviously you have seen very good pitching. Getting to sit on a bucket and catch a decent rise is a whole lot of fun. Once again, does it rise? It sure does something real strange.
> >
> > Mark
>
> We are all conditioned from a lifetime of experience to NOT SEEING the ball's drop due to gravity. A 100 MPH fastball drops 2.6 feet due to gravity in the 60 feet it is thrown. We don't 'see it' because it always happens and we've already compensated for it. It is not novel, it is a given. Any counteracting of this by backspin creates the illusion of upward movement. It IS upward - upward of the expected drop from gravity (seems to rise) but not upward from the line of flight (it doesn't really rise).
> Still messes up your expectations of where the pitch should end up (effective pitch)

At least. I'm right there with you as far as understanding what you are saying. Let me illustrate my struggle with what I see vs what you have very reasonably explained here. Take Harrigan for instance. She throws a "riseball". Doesn't look like it rises to me, but she uses it effectively as one of her secondary pitches. Someone on FPF did a computer study complete with all kind of fancy graphics showing that her "riseball" actually went straight until about the plate. Even that is quite a feat. However, if her ball went on a straight line (angled up but moving on a straight line), how do I then explain Lisa who has more apparent (be it illusion or real) up movement or break than Harrigan? And then how do you explain Cat who has even more apparent up movement or break? I'm not going to say right now that the ball is breaking upward. I'm just going to ask someone to explain the above.

Has anyone done a scientific study using softballs as opposed to baseballs? Other than just doing the math I mean.

Mark