Posted by: StevenV (steven@ars-inc.com) on Thu Jun 29 09:06:36 2006

I am on board with Jack here also. The form we practice I would not thing puts any undue stress on growth plates or joints. The bag abruptly stopping the back would only be an issue in my mind if the object you were hitting didn't have any give to it.

We do practice from the lag position a few reps. then I have him put the bottom hand on and practice at full speed for several reps. Again, once he loses form or the arms start to drop then I know that is enough reps.

I do agree with Joe that it needs not to feel like a chore, otherwise the child will not view baseball as a game and fun. I know of kids 7 years old that play select travel ball and in Texas where live play upwards of 70 games per year. To me that is excessive. We play travel ball and recreational ball but we (the parents) limit how much is enough.

The one thing anyone at this age that practices the bag drill should focus on is that the kids is not sliding / drifting/ or driving their weight forward at contact. That is what I see most in kids trying to learn rotatinal mechanics at this age, is that the linear movements have stopped once the swing is initiated. Most little league parks and practices you still hear "step into it" "get your elbow up" and "throw your hands at the ball". Undoing this is difficult.>

>>> Hi Guys,
>
> I personally would not do "heavy" bag training with a 7 year old. You need to be very careful with "growth plates" and the added stress that this drill can have on his joints.
>
> Let him just swing a bat, play whiffle ball, have fun. There will be plenty of time to get into more serious workouts with your "gifted" son. Growth plates are growth plates...regardless of genetics, a seven year old needs to grow and be a kid. Also, his body is not yet physiologically mature to integrate and benefit from a program of "power".
>
> This can put too much strain on young muscles, tendons and growth plates, especially when proper technique is sacrificed in favor of trying to hit a bag.
>
>
> I am sure Jack Mankin would agree with this. <<<
>
> Hi Joe
>
> Sorry, I must whole heatedly disagree with you. There may be too much strain on young muscles, tendons and growth plates at contact with the bag with the swing mechanics taught by some coaches, but is certainly not true for the mechanics taught here or in our instructional dvd.
>
> Joe, I think you may have the wrong notion of the use of the “heavy bag” – it is not for strength building. I will place below a post that discusses the correct use of the bag.
>
> Jack Mankin
> ##
>
> Re: Clarification on use of hitting bag
>
> Posted by: Jack Mankin (MrBatspeed@aol.com) on Thu Sep 29 10:43:28 2005
>
> >>> Need some guidance. I have a group a 10U girls that play fast pitch softball. I was wanting to get the hitting bag for them to work on. Couple of questions first. Is this a good toll for this age. Second - Ive always heard that the bat speed after ball contact is importnat for ball distance. If this is true will the hitting bag help or do I need to go back to the deflated balls. If not how do I get my girls to swing all the way through after ball contact
>
> Thanks in advance <<<
>
> Hi Robert
>
> When you watch a good lumberjack swing an axe, you find that he has expended all his energy and his hands have ceased to drive forward as the blade sinks into the tree. It is the momentum of the axe that sinks the blade – not the hands continuing to drive the handle. The tree stopped the blade so we see no follow-through. But if the tree were not there, it would be the axe’s momentum that pulled the hands and arms around the follow-through – not the arms extending.
>
> Practicing hitting the heavy bag with a bat uses the same principle as a lumberjack’s axe striking a tree – it is the bat speed generated before contact that counts. Continuing to drive the bat through the follow-through is wasted energy. Below is a post from the Archives on this topic.
>
> Jack Mankin
> ##
>
> Confusion/heavy bag drill
>
> Posted by: Jack Mankin (MrBatspeed@aol.com) on Thu Jun 21 20:16:08 2001
>
> <u>Jack Mankin's comment:</u>
>
> Hi All:
>
> I have noticed from reading post on other forums that there is some confusion regarding the "heavy bag drill." Many coaches seem to think the batter attempts to develop a more powerful swing by driving through the bag or causing the bag to move or swing. These coaches equate hitting the heavy bag to that of hitting deflated basketballs or similar objects, but nothing could be farther from the truth. The principles to be learned from the heavy bag drills are completely opposite to mechanics developed from swinging at tossed deflated basketballs.
>
> The concepts surrounding the "follow-through" or coast-out phase of the swing have long been misunderstood. Coaches have been taught that to hit the ball hard the batter must continue to drive through the ball well after contact. So it is quite understandable why many coaches would adopt drills that would require the batter to continue "pushing" the bat through the follow-through phase. For example, to propel a deflated basketball forward would require that the basketball remain in contact with the bat for an extended time where the bat could move forward 8 or more inches after the initial contact. Swinging at deflated basketballs would definitely require that the batter continue applying energy to the bat well after contact.
>
> Hitting a baseball is a very different story. The baseball is only in contact with the bat for approximately 1/2000 of a second and the bat moves forward less than 3/4 of an inch. Therefore, any energy applied to the bat after contact has NO effect on the ball's flight and is wasted energy. Good transfer mechanics will deplete all bat speed-generating energy prior to or by contact.
>
> This is a major difference between average hitters and great hitters. The mechanics of most average hitters develops bat speed much later in the swing. These hitters continue applying forces to the bat well after passing the optimum contact point. That is why they have little power to the opposite field and many of their better-hit balls are pulled foul.
>
> The purpose of using a heavy bag to absorb the bat's energy at the contact point is to train the batter to expend all bat speed-generating energy (rotational and torque) prior to or by contact. Good transfer mechanics and timing will have the batter depleting his rotational and torque energy as the bat-head reaches maximum velocity. -- Stated another way, all the energy has been sucked out of the system as maximum bat speed is reached.
>
> Therefore, after all of the body's energy has been transferred into bat speed, the body and limb muscles are at rest. The hip and shoulder rotation is complete -- lead-arm pull and back-forearm lowering to horizontal (the "L" position) is complete -- the hand-path has slowed to a stop -- there is NO energy being applied to the bat -- the bat's energy has been expended into the heavy bag -- all motion has ceased -- all muscles are relaxed. Thus, you now have a frozen frame of the batters mechanics at contact.
>
> This is not the case with weaker hitters. Improper initiation of the swing (for example, thrusting the top-hand forward) quickly places the batter behind the power curve and he or she is left trying to develop bat speed after the bat reaches contact. Striking the heavy bag with tense arms that are still driving forward can cause discomfort to the hands and wrist. I would advise taking it easy until the batters' transfer mechanics improve.
>
> I think you can now see that the mechanics developed while swinging at deflated basketballs are quite different than those used in the heavy bag drill. A batters' progress will be slowed when hitting any object that requires the batter to reserve energy for a powerful follow-through. In a good swing, the bat's momentum will pull the body and limbs through the coast-out phase of the swing, not reserved energy.
>
> Jack Mankin