Posted by: Major Dan (Markj89@charter.net) on Sat Apr 21 16:10:13 2001

>>> What Ted Williams said was that a slight uppercut matches the slight downward plane of the ball. If you are on time you will drive the ball in the air. By matching the swing plane with the pitch plane, you will have a longer area (and time) in which you can hit the ball flush, a foot or two of swing range matching the ball's flight. If your swing plane does not match the pitch plane (swinging down at the dropping ball, or swinging up severely through the flight of the ball) you will have one intersection point matching the ball's flight - a much smaller range of success.
> > > What Williams also said was that with the slight uppercut, if you are a bit early you will hit the top of the ball and hit a hard topspin grounder that is difficult to field and moves hard through the infield. If you are a bit late, you will hit a backspin line drive that will carry very well. So matching the swing plane to the pitch plane (the slight uppercut) gives greater margin for error to the bater in every way. <<<
> > >
> > > Hi Major Dan
> > >
> > > If the “slight uppercut matches the slight downward plane of the ball,” then the ball’s flight and batter’s swing plane would be “inline” or on the same plane. Therefore, the batter would still hit the center of the ball if the swing were early or late. So I am sure what Ted meant was, that if the batter’s uppercut was greater than the “slight uppercut”, the planes would not be inline and timing would be of greater importance. --- But many hitters with greater uppercuts are still able pull a good number of fly balls.
> > >
> > > Jack Mankin
> > >
> >
> > I agree with what you just said. I wasn't clear in my previous post about some things.
> > No swing is on plane with the pitch for 100% of its path. The bat comes down into the path and eventually up above it again. It is the window in between where the ball should be hit and is what we are talking about.
> > If swing plane and pitch plane match the ball will be hit on center within the 'window' of the swing where the bat and ball are on plane.
> > AND this window is larger when the two planes match than when they don't (greater uppercut or chop down)
> > If the swing is late enough that contact happens JUST BEFORE the planes match, the slight downward batpath relative to the ball will impart backspin. (if it is way off it will hit the top of the ball or miss entirely). If the swing is JUST EARLY enough that the bat starts to rise again above the pitch plane, contact will generate topspin grounders. (if it is more significantly off it will top the ball or miss entirely). Ted was specific in mentioning DiMaggio as having the ability if he got ahead of an inside pitch to hit vicious topspin grounders through the thirdbaseman, that often went for doubles down the line.
> > So I think Ted's point was that the good contact window is greater AND the 'almost's' can give beneficial results as well.
> > I also think that this is a good model for a swing against a fastball because the swing plane 10% up, matches the pitch plane 10% down (approximations). However, curveballs have significantly greater degrees of drop, sinkers and changeups drop more. A good high four seamer will drop less.
> > So I don't think a slight uppercut (10%) will match every pitch by any means. I hope Ted meant to match swing plane to pitch plane, not just swing up 10% everytime.
> > Another area of swing error is a matching swing/pitch plane angle but where the bat is slightly high or slightly low compared to the ball.
> > If the bat is somewhat above center on a ball at contact, the uppercut will also impart topspin to the grounder.
> > If the bat is slightly below center, the contact will generate backspin. A slightly below center, well timed contact will hit the ball in the air with backspin and result in the longest distance possible.
> >
> >Last year I asked the question which is more important,swing plane or timing,and most said timing.I disagreed and said swing plane,and this discussion seems to sway towards swing plane being more critical.
> >
> >
RQL -
Your questions is a very challenging one. I guess I would say that on one level they are both involved since if timing or swing plane is way off, you won't hit.
If they are both on, you will hit the ball well.
What Williams' thoughts suggest is that a swing plane matched to the pitch is more forgiving to timing issues - longer area through swing with solid contact (extra milliseconds during swing that will succeed) and better results both early, late, and just off line. So I agree, swing plane is more fundamental than timing and actually makes timing easier.
RQL, do you think this is true in your experience?