Posted by: Jack Mankin (MrBatspeed@aol.com) on Sat Oct 4 14:12:07 2008

>>> I think of the shoulders as needing to be primarily tilting to support the forearms and hands in torquing the bat and setting a swing plane that the body turn conforms to/supports. So in my opinion, THT at Launch requires the primary scap/shoulder action to be tilt which puts the hands in charge of swing plane orientation and timing while additional load/coil of the torso is created.

primarily turning (instead of tilt being primary) the shoulders rushes the torso so that it can get out of sequence and be unable to stretch and fire/unable to "peak" before the arm segment speed peaks. <<<

Hi Tom

I will leave Golf to you and respond to the baseball swing issues you raise.

I as mentioned before, I think we are closer in our views on tilting and rotation than it may appear. It will probably take each of us demonstrating these motions in person to be sure. I think you would agree that a Ferris-wheel, Teeter-totter and Merry-go-round all rotate about a stationary axis. Just because a Teeter-totter rotates vertically (up and down), doesn’t mean it is not rotating about an axis.

I would say most good hitter rotate the shoulders on a tilted axis of about 45 degrees. Chase Utley and Ryan Howard rotation is more vertical, say 60 or so degrees (more like a Teeter-totter), whereas Chipper Jones and Pujols would be like a tilted Merry-go-round. – A study of the swing planes produced from these different axes is quite revealing. For one thing, it helps understand why a shifted defense employed against Utley and Howard would be more successful than against other good hitters with less tilted axis.

Jack Mankin