Posted by: Jim (jwelborn@lexcominc.net) on Wed Nov 23 20:26:58 2005

> Oooh boy, Jim,
>
> More definitions!
>
> “Is there a difference between “weight shift” and “hip slide”?”
>
> Technically, there doesn’t seem to be. I mean, if one were to “slide” the hip, then one would expect a shift in weight, since the center of mass is practically tied to the hip, right? And as you say, “I have yet to see a pro clip where there is no hip slide/weight shift.”
>
> How about your first:
>
> http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/bagwell1.mpeg
>
> I do see a weight shift, but I don’t see a hip slide.
>
>
>
> But let’s forget about Bagwell. 99.9 % of hitters that do stride (or don’t), do slide their hips. But it’s not just the hips that they slide. The whole front side slides. The front foreleg, the knee, the thigh, the hip, the torso, the shoulder, the head.
>
> I don’t think that when most talk about “hip slide” they are referring to the the hips moving forward with the stride. I think most are referring to the slide of the hips that occur after heel plant, after what I call “full sit” (sitting to hit), and continue to slide even after torso rotation begins. But that’s another topic.
>
>
> For the sake of argument, let’s say that there is no difference between “weight shift” and “hip slide”. You disagree that a batter who strides while hitting, may or may not weight shift. I take it that you don’t believe that there is an option. But, there is. I can physically transfer my center of mass over my rear leg, and keep it there while striding (stepping out) with my front leg. So can you. I can also stride as far forward as I can possibly stretch while trying to keep my center of mass as much back as possible. I can also stride as far forward while trying to transfer as much of my center of mass over the stride leg as I possibly can. A similar case can be made for no-striders. The point is to refute Jack’s silly assumption, “If forward weight shift develops linear momentum that is transferred to rotational momentum, you would think the best hitters would be taking longer strides and shifting more weight”, with one as silly.
>
> Jim, the important thing to remember is that each batter has an individual choice as to the length of stride (including no-stride) AND (totally independent of stride) the amount of weight shift.
>
> For instance, an extreme example of what Jack is assuming:
> Let’s say the batter’s box was 20 ft. long, and that you could take a running start at a pitched ball from the rear of the box, like the running start of a javelin tosser. Let’s further assume that your timing and contact point were perfect. Sure, you would hit the ball further than a no-strider, or even a strider under the constraints of baseball rules. Happy Gilmore success. You know, there is even an old clip around, of Babe Ruth doing a cross-over walk-up swing. What’s the point? Speed vs. Accuracy. Like it or not, there is an optimal trade-off point. One for the other, and hitters tinker (experiment) to find what is optimum for them.



Ray,

RE: www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/bagwell1.mpeg

The Bagwell clip is interesting. Note his exotically wide but well balanced stance (not leaning back toward the catcher). Note that he actually takes a small NEGATIVE stride. Note that his axis of rotation achieves a backward tilt during rotation prior to contact and at contact there has been a repositioning of the hips relative to the head. Bagwell’s swing is extremely unusual. It could be said that he has achieved the same thing as hip slide with no linear movement of his hips. Instead, it is his upper body sliding rearward.

In Bagwell’s case there is obviously no momentum generated from hip slide/weight transfer. Again, Bagwell is very unusual. As a curiosity, it’s good to see his swing. However, I would never use his example in teaching young batters.

You said, “I don’t think that when most talk about “hip slide” they are referring to the hips moving forward with the stride. I think most are referring to the slide of the hips that occur after heel plant, after what I call “full sit” (sitting to hit), and continue to slide even after torso rotation begins.”

I agree that hip slide is not tied to the stride. But I do believe that in hitters who do stride, hip slide begins during stride and terminates after rotation has begun (after heel plant, prior to contact) in a continuous dynamic movement. No-striders do the same, only without striding their front foot.

You said, “For the sake of argument, let’s say that there is no difference between “weight shift” and “hip slide”. You disagree that a batter who strides while hitting, may or may not weight shift. I take it that you don’t believe that there is an option. But, there is. I can physically transfer my center of mass over my rear leg, and keep it there while striding (stepping out) with my front leg. . .”

Your point is well taken. However, in such an example any rotation will be entirely on the back foot. Correct rotation occurs off the front foot (at ground level), usually around the heel. For this to occur, the back foot must be un-weighted. If it is being un-weighted, there must be some weight being shifted. In other words, no weight shift yields rotation on the back foot; while weight shift forward yields rotation off the front foot.

You said, “Speed vs. Accuracy. Like it or not, there is an optimal trade-off point. One for the other, and hitters tinker (experiment) to find what is optimum for them.

I agree. I see that in our pro clips. Some more rotational hand paths, some less rotational hand paths, but all rotational.

You said, “Please tell how a stride "creates" timing?

I will rephrase that. I believe “stride” is a mechanism batters use in timing the pitch. Stride is related to timing in that after the toe touches (the end of the stride) the process of rotation begins. Adjustment to pitch speed must be made prior to rotation. A skilled batter will hesitate on the toe at toe touch (the end of stride) and retard (not stop) hip slide to adjust his timing for off-speed pitches. The decision to hesitate is made during the stride/hip slide. No-striders do the same thing except they make the decision during their no stride/hip slide. The difficulty young batters have is performing this adjustment without adversely affecting rotation.

Jim