Posted by: SJD (nospam@nospam.org) on Sun Nov 13 19:30:50 2005

This is my final posting in this seemingly endless, tiresome and ultimately pointless thread. I'll not waste any more batspeed.com bandwidth after this post, because, Scott, I don't think you're really after answers. It's the thrill of the flame that keeps you a postin' and a postin'.

So here goes.

> 1. So everybody is rotational, yet nobody is being taught rotational mechanics…? Explain this.

I'll assume you're referring to the major leagues here. Who said "nobody" is being taught rotational mechanics? Obviously if MLB'ers use rotational mechanics, they learned the techniques from someplace. Maybe they had a great Little League coach who was ahead of his time. Maybe they had great college, minor or major league hitting coaching. Maybe they surfed batspeed.com. Maybe it came to them while navel-gazing in a golf cart, in the off-season. Who knows? Who cares?

And what's the relevance to the topic at hand?

Again - PEDANTICALLY - I've not seen anyone at this discussion board trying to disprove or cast aspersions on major league hitting coaches and coaching. Nor does the Final Arc II imply that big-leaguers aren't taught rotational techniques. The DVD/video and discussion board identify those mechanics that are shared by some of the best pro hitters, and quantify for the aspiring amateur practical methods to emulate and - hopefully - achieve the same form.

It's challenging enough to learn and successfully apply the techniques needed for a smooth and effective rotational swing, and nevermind criticizing what the pros do or don't do. And arguing how many major league coaches teaching rotational or linear mechanics can dance on the head of a pin is - to me, anyways - irrelevant to the topic of understanding RM.

And it's getting boring, too.

>
> 2. Barry Bonds talks about catching the baseball with his back hand and getting ‘directly to the baseball’ yet he is rotational…? Explain this.
>
If you watch any Bonds hitting clips and believe he's a linear hitter, well, I'm not gonna try to convince you otherwise. And why you've brought up some obscure Bonds quote that may or may not be taken in context (or entirely accurate, for that matter) is a mystery, Scott.

"Explain"... why? What's the relevance?

Wayne Gretzky noted the secret of his hockey success was "not skating to where the puck is, but where it's going to be". This quote is about equally as useful to the topic of rotational mechanics as the Bonds quote you've noted above. What's the point?
>
> 3. Who with any credibility is backing this method? List please.
>
As everyone and their dog have referenced the clips at youthbaseballcoaching.com, Ted Williams, etc., I'd think the backers with credibility are pretty obvious. It would appear that some of today's best pro hitters, and pros of yesteryear have adopted rotational mechanics. The fact that we see the method in the clips mentioned (not to mention daily replays on the tube) are all the validity I personally require to assume these players are backing rotational hitting mechanics. I don't need them to prick their fingers upon their spikes and endorse rotational mechanics in blood; I'm pretty cool with accepting things as-is.

> 4. Professional hitting instructors, or hitting instructors who are a part of the old school of an a-b, linear approach to hitting must be failing miserably in their attempt to convert all these rotational guys to linear…? Agree or disagree?
>

Aaaaarrrrghhhhhh!

Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that if the pros are set in using rotational mechanics (especially the top hitters), their hitting instructors AREN'T trying to get them to "convert" or employ the (Batspeed defined) linear, "hands straight to the ball" method? Moreover, who - in this thread or in any recent posting - has implied that some earnest, yet ignorant and knuckle-dragging cabal of hitting coaches are unconsciously trying to degrade professional hitting by turning big-leaguers into some single-focused, linear-hitting Borg?

I don't think there's a legit question to agree or disagree with, here. And again... where's the relevance?
>
> Yet again, while a purely linear swing is not really possible, (the hand path on a pitch on the inside corner is about as close to a purely liner path as you’ll get) the mental picture and the coaching of this idea will produce better results then an arched, circular path.
>
Yet again, depending on your definition of linear, this isn't necessarily true. If by "linear" we take Jack's definition (hands moving from cocked position in a straight line to impact point, with bat head lagging behind hands), then it IS possible, as any linear-instructed Little Leaguer will affirm.

But Scott, if you look at those pro hitting clips, where the handpaths are clearly curvilinear ("rotational") and think the hitters facilite this by envisioning a linear, "hands straight to the ball" mechanic... well, guy, that's cool by me. Whatever floats yer hitting boat. I wonder if this technique is transferable to other sports; perhaps Tiger Woods thinks "300 yard drive" when he's setting up to chip or putt...

>
> 5. “Making your first move perpendicular to the catcher”…what % of MLB’ers would agree with that statement?
>
> My guess… “0!”
> What's yours?
>

Why guess when the evidence is visible? Again, review the clips, manually if possible to watch the hand path.

Check out the Boone clip:
http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/boone_bret_side_oppoHR.mpeg

At swing commencement, does his bat handle move linearly towards the pitcher or does it rotate, beginning perpendicular to the catcher?

Here's another one:

http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/dunn_adam1.mpeg

Note Dunn's "hidden hands" before the swing? The bat MUST move towards the dugout before hitting the ball, as it's impossible to move them linearly towards the pitcher in this position.

Here's an even better clip of Dunn's hidden hands and perpendicular start-of-swing:

http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/dunn_adam.mpeg

Here's Griffey with similar hidden hands & rotational swing:
http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/griffey_ken1.mpeg

Another "hand hider" here:
http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/nomar3.mpeg

Finally, how about Pete Rose:
http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/Rose.mpeg

His hands weren't hidden, but where do YOU see his bat moving upon swing initiation? Sheesh - you can manually stop his swing with the bat PERFECTLY aligned on top of the left side of home plate, or moving PERPENDICULAR to the catcher. And talk about "swinging around a stationary axis"! Also note in the clip how Rose keeps his front elbow from extending towards the pitcher (a linear movement) as his left arm rotates around the axis. True, his arm is extended too far to hold a single playing card in place as Jack has suggested (he might wedge a 52-card deck in there), but Rose shows a clearly curved path from a line through his spine to his left hand, from beginning to end of swing.

The "hidden hands" technique isn't used by all the hitters in the clips shown; Bonds doesn't appear to use it. For the purposes of coaching kids, I personally like the idea as it forces them to adopt a curved hand path from beginning of the swing; it's just too easy to cheat with a linear "hands to ball" swing if the hands are open and aligned with the mound.

Ciao, and

Hit 'em any way you can!

-SJD-