Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

Posted by: Graylon (g_dunc@hotmail.com) on Thu Aug 21 16:29:30 2008

> > > > > > The best idea I can come up with is for you to move to a soccer board.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Teacherman,
> > > > >
> > > > > That's the best idea I've heard.
> > > > >
> > > > > Although, I watched Konerko hit against the A's today and it appeared, from the perspective of the pitcher, that he is shifting and then swinging. I didn't see a side shot but IMO he was weighting his front foot, bending at the waist and then swinging. He look a bit out of sync.
> > > > >
> > > > > Graylon
> > > >
> > > > hello gray!!
> > > >
> > > > you have observed & made some good points.. but the tv probably didn't show you what you needed to see: PAUL KONERKO is like a lot of guys who think standing with their back heel just barely touching the farthest-back speck of chalk on the back line is the place to be.. when i ask hitters WHY they stand so far back, they say they get more time to look at the pitch before deciding whether to fire.. to those guys i ask
> > > > "EXACTLY HOW MUCH EXTRA TIME ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?"
> > > > ANSWER: @90 MPH, THE BALL TRAVELS ABOUT 132 FEET/SECOND.. THAT MEANS THE EXTRA FOOT YOU ARE STANDING BACK WILL GIVE YOU - . 0 0 7 SECOND!!
> > > > that is 7/10 of a hundredth of a second.. SUCH A RIDICULOUSLY SMALL AMOUNT OF TIME as to make no difference whatsoever.. however,
> > > > THE TRADEOFF:
> > > > 1. FACT: THE FARTHER A BALL TRAVELS THE MORE THE CURVATURE OF THE FLIGHT OF THE BALL..THE FARTHER THE BALL TRAVELS AWAY FROM YOU!so if you stand back an extra foot, YOU GIVE THE PITCHER AN EXTRA FOOT OF TRAVEL ON HIS BREAKING BALL TO PLAY YOU WITH, MAKING IT EVEN MORE DIFFICULT TO HIT A BREAKING BALL, especially when you have 2 strikes & the pitcher is hoping you go fishing for a pitch you cannot do much with. YOU MUST NOT NOT NOT RELINQUISH CONTROL OF THE OUTSIDE PART OF THE PLATE!! TO DO SO IS TO PROVIDE THE PITCHER WITH AN ADVANTAGE THAT HE WILL USE WHEN HE GETS 2 STRIKES!!
> > > > KONERKO has a wide stance, & virtually no lower body movement in his swing..he, like THOME, is all arms/shoulders.. he simply starts flipping his wrists.. plus he has a way-too-steep angle golfer's swing.. which means the number of balls you will hit RIGHT on the button are reduced..
> > > > that is the cause.. what you saw is the effect. when he has 2 strikes, here comes the breaking pitch out of the zone.. in order to put SOME wood on that pitch, he must bend at the waist (FATAL ERROR #1), drop his power hand off the bat in order to reach out there far enough & turn into a backhanded tennis player(FATAL ERROR #2)..at that point he is dead meat, because HIS BATSPEED IS SO DIMINISHED
> > > > HE CANNOT POSSIBLY GET THERE IN TIME TO PUT GOOD WOOD ON THE BALL..
> > > > since he cannot hit that pitcher's pitch anyway, he is better off leaving it alone.. that way all he can do is strike out rather than making 2 outs on the play..by getting over the top & hitting a DP grounder.. which he does with mind numbing regularity.
> > > > the guy should just be looking dead red.. since he can't do anything with that down/away pitch, leave it alone.
> > >
> > >
> > > George,
> > >
> > > You are wrong. You constantly repeat the same thing over and over again. Not every hitter is a cookie cutter. His stance is fine. You probably have no idea what I was describing because you can't see it and have probably never felt it before.
> > >
> > > Even with a wide stance you can still "ride" the back leg and create forward momentum with out weighting the front foot (weight shift). Once the front foot is weighted and the swing has not been launched, all you can do is swing with the arms and there is no adjustability. But you would say that it is the stance because you can't see, fell or understand.
> > >
> > > Graylon
> >
> > Jack,
> >
> > Please give us a break and get a new forum format! There are many to choose from that cost nothing or little to remove ads and/or make it your own with graphics. This forum really sucks trying to go back and forth to read every ones comments, because there are breaks in the order of posts it doesn't not allow for the posts to be one continuous
> > thread.
> >
> > As far as Griffey is concerned. I would bet his batspeed as not changed at all. I have seen clips of him with the Reds where I don't think his swing is as good as when he was a Mariner.
> >
> > It is pretty common knowledge that Griffey doesn't like to workout. He has done little to take his great ability and improve it or just to maintain it.
> >
> > Almost everything he achieved was on his natural ability. I'm saying he would not have had any injuries that has plagued him with the Reds, but he didn't do much as far as prevention.
> >
> > All I know is he has been criticized for not really working out enough in the off season, etc.,.
> >
> > I don't think his lead arm has anything to do with his performance. There's a big difference between a barred lead arm and relaxed lead arm extension. Griffey has always had relaxed lead am extension.
> >
> > Even if you worked out any hitter can reach an age where they just lose the ability to hit at a high level. You may or may not even "see" any differences in the swing. Sosa, did pretty good when he came back with the Rangers considering he didn't play everyday throughout the entire year. Sosa wasn't really old when he started to have problems and I'm pretty sure he workout allot.
> >
> > You just never know when a hitter is going to lose it. There are many who have had 10 good/great years and fewer that have had 20 good/great years. Griffey had 10 great years, where I'm sure he hit more HR's then anybody. Then he had a few injury plagued seasons and then perhaps 5 more good (average years) since then.
> >
> > The idea that Griffey should raise his hands to ear level is ridiculous. That will not help him, he already sometimes shows a little to much bat drag where he hands raise up above his back shoulder. If he is anything like he was with the Mariners, starting with the hands higher would make his swing worse.
> >
> > Griffey is a "swinger", his swing is pure and natural. Some hitters have more of a stroke or a combination of the two. Griffey more then likely would not know how to hit with a stroke, because he has always taken a pure "swinging" approach. And at his age he might have reached a point where just taken a pure swing isn't enough or he can't match up against the pitchers with that pure swing anymore.
>
> hello gray & shawn!!
> gray, 1st of all to say you swing with just you arms/shoulders once the feet are planted is a perfect illutstration that you know less than nothing... YOUR POWER IS IN YOUR LEGS!! ALL YOU GUYS OUT THERE WHO ENDORSE BUGGYWHIPPING..A TOO WIDE BASE WITH A TOO OPEN STANCE ARE IGNORING YOUR STRONGER HALF.. WHICH IS BELOW YOUR BELT!!! HELLO?!?!? THAT STYLE GETS YOU HR's BUT A DIMINISHED BA, POOR RISP BA, & IN GENERAL NOT WINNING BASEBALL!
> to have a wide base means you have little or no lower body torque..WHICH MUST COME BEFORE YOU START YOUR UPPER BODY TORQUE!!! ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THERE IS MORE POWER IN YOUR UPPER BODY THAN YOUR LOWER BODY IS GUARANTEEING THEIR BATSPEED WILL NOT BE OPTIMIZED!!!
>
> HELLO SHAWN!
>
> well said about the format of this site.. it needs some work! but the people on this site need even more..
> they endorse & obsess the mechanics of the actual swing to the exclusion of far more important factors.. like the STANCE!! jack refuses to this day to acknowledge the stance is nothing but "style",
> & HE HAS YET TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE STANCE HAS ANY EFFECT ON SUCCESS RATE!!! HUH?!?!
> LOGIC would suggest that if hitters stand in different locations in the box, & hold their feet, hands, arms, & bats in different positions pre-swing, THEN THE END RESULT MUST BE DIFFERENT!!!... make sense?
>
> concerning gGRIFFEY:
> YOU DID NOT READ OR PAY MUCH ATTENTION TO WHAT I WROTE:
> G R A V I T Y.. is the geat equalizer.. if you hold your hands up eye-high, YOU WILL BE COMING DOWN IF JUST THE SLIGHTEST BIT, THUS INCREASING YOUR BATSPEED ENOUGH SO YOU ARE ON TIME RATHER THAN LATE!!! HANDS UP IS A GOOD THING!!!
> TO SAY OTHERWISE IS TO BELIEVE THAT BASEBALL PLAYERS ARE IMMUNE TO THE LAWS OF PHYSICS!! ...which they are not.

George,

I stopped reading your post after the first sentence. The reason is you have proven you no very little to nothing about hitting a baseball. I NEVER HAVE SAID THE LEGS DO NOT PLAY A PART IN THE SWING, but you constantly suggest I have.
Read my post again and show me where I have said the legs do not play a role in the swing process.

Graylon

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> > > > > > > The best idea I can come up with is for you to move to a soccer board.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Teacherman,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > That's the best idea I've heard.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Although, I watched Konerko hit against the A's today and it appeared, from the perspective of the pitcher, that he is shifting and then swinging. I didn't see a side shot but IMO he was weighting his front foot, bending at the waist and then swinging. He look a bit out of sync.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Graylon
> > > > > 
> > > > > hello gray!!
> > > > > 
> > > > > you have observed & made some good points.. but the tv probably didn't show you what you needed to see: PAUL KONERKO is like a lot of guys who think standing with their back heel just barely touching the farthest-back speck of chalk on the back line is the place to be.. when i ask hitters WHY they stand so far back, they say they get more time to look at the pitch before deciding whether to fire.. to those guys i ask
> > > > > "EXACTLY HOW MUCH EXTRA TIME ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?"
> > > > > ANSWER: @90 MPH, THE BALL TRAVELS ABOUT 132 FEET/SECOND.. THAT MEANS THE EXTRA FOOT YOU ARE STANDING BACK WILL GIVE YOU - . 0 0 7 SECOND!!
> > > > > that is 7/10 of a hundredth of a second.. SUCH A RIDICULOUSLY SMALL AMOUNT OF TIME as to make no difference whatsoever.. however, 
> > > > > THE TRADEOFF:
> > > > > 1. FACT: THE FARTHER A BALL TRAVELS THE MORE THE CURVATURE OF THE FLIGHT OF THE BALL..THE FARTHER THE BALL TRAVELS AWAY FROM YOU!so if you stand back an extra foot, YOU GIVE THE PITCHER AN EXTRA FOOT OF TRAVEL ON HIS BREAKING BALL TO PLAY YOU WITH, MAKING IT EVEN MORE DIFFICULT TO HIT A BREAKING BALL, especially when you have 2 strikes & the pitcher is hoping you go fishing for a pitch you cannot do much with.  YOU MUST  NOT NOT NOT RELINQUISH CONTROL OF THE OUTSIDE PART OF THE PLATE!! TO DO SO IS TO PROVIDE THE PITCHER WITH AN ADVANTAGE THAT HE WILL USE WHEN HE GETS 2 STRIKES!!
> > > > > KONERKO has a wide stance, & virtually no lower body movement in his swing..he, like THOME, is all arms/shoulders.. he simply starts flipping his wrists.. plus he has a way-too-steep angle golfer's  swing.. which means the number of balls you will hit RIGHT on the button are reduced..
> > > > > that is the cause.. what you saw is the effect. when he has 2 strikes, here comes the breaking pitch out of the zone.. in order to put SOME wood on that pitch, he must bend at the waist (FATAL ERROR #1), drop his power hand off the bat in order to reach out there far enough & turn into a backhanded tennis player(FATAL ERROR #2)..at that point he is dead meat, because HIS BATSPEED IS SO DIMINISHED
> > > > > HE CANNOT POSSIBLY GET THERE IN TIME TO PUT GOOD WOOD ON THE BALL..
> > > > > since he cannot hit that pitcher's pitch anyway, he is better off leaving it alone.. that way all he can do is strike out rather than making 2 outs on the play..by getting over the top & hitting a DP grounder.. which he does with mind numbing regularity.
> > > > > the guy should just be looking dead red.. since he can't do anything with that down/away pitch, leave it alone.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > George,
> > > > 
> > > > You are wrong. You constantly repeat the same thing over and over again. Not every hitter is a cookie cutter. His stance is fine. You probably have no idea what I was describing because you can't see it and have probably never felt it before.
> > > > 
> > > > Even with a wide stance you can still "ride" the back leg and create forward momentum with out weighting the front foot (weight shift). Once the front foot is weighted and the swing has not been launched, all you can do is swing with the arms and there is no adjustability. But you would say that it is the stance because you can't see, fell or understand.
> > > > 
> > > > Graylon
> > > 
> > > Jack,
> > > 
> > > Please give us a break and get a new forum format! There are many to choose from that cost nothing or little to remove ads and/or make it your own with graphics. This forum really sucks trying to go back and forth to read every ones comments, because there are breaks in the order of posts it doesn't not allow for the posts to be one continuous
> > > thread.
> > > 
> > > As far as Griffey is concerned. I would bet his batspeed as not changed at all. I have seen clips of him with the Reds where I don't think his swing is as good as when he was a Mariner.
> > > 
> > > It is pretty common knowledge that Griffey doesn't like to workout. He has done little to take his great ability and improve it or just to maintain it. 
> > > 
> > > Almost everything he achieved was on his natural ability. I'm saying he would not have had any injuries that has plagued him with the Reds, but he didn't do much as far as prevention. 
> > > 
> > > All I know is he has been criticized for not really working out enough in the off season, etc.,. 
> > > 
> > > I don't think his lead arm has anything to do with his performance. There's a big difference between a barred lead arm and relaxed lead arm extension. Griffey has always had relaxed lead am extension. 
> > > 
> > > Even if you worked out any hitter can reach an age where they just lose the ability to hit at a high level. You may or may not even "see" any differences in the swing. Sosa, did pretty good when he came back with the Rangers considering he didn't play everyday throughout the entire year. Sosa wasn't really old when he started to have problems and I'm pretty sure he workout allot.
> > > 
> > > You just never know when a hitter is going to lose it. There are many who have had 10 good/great years and fewer that have had 20 good/great years. Griffey had 10 great years, where I'm sure he hit more HR's then anybody. Then he had a few injury plagued seasons and then perhaps 5 more good (average years) since then.
> > > 
> > > The idea that Griffey should raise his hands to ear level is ridiculous. That will not help him, he already sometimes shows a little to much bat drag where he hands raise up above his back shoulder. If he is anything like he was with the Mariners, starting with the hands higher would make his swing worse.
> > > 
> > > Griffey is a "swinger", his swing is pure and natural. Some hitters have more of a stroke or a combination of the two. Griffey more then likely would not know how to hit with a stroke, because he has always taken a pure "swinging" approach. And at his age he might have reached a point where just taken a pure swing isn't enough or he can't match up against the pitchers with that pure swing anymore.
> > 
> > hello gray & shawn!!
> > gray, 1st of all to say  you swing with just you arms/shoulders once the feet are planted is a perfect illutstration that you know less than nothing... YOUR POWER IS IN YOUR LEGS!! ALL YOU GUYS OUT THERE WHO ENDORSE BUGGYWHIPPING..A TOO WIDE BASE WITH A TOO OPEN STANCE ARE IGNORING YOUR STRONGER HALF.. WHICH IS BELOW YOUR BELT!!! HELLO?!?!?  THAT STYLE GETS YOU HR's BUT A DIMINISHED BA, POOR RISP BA, & IN GENERAL NOT WINNING BASEBALL!
> > to have a wide base means you have little or no lower body torque..WHICH MUST COME BEFORE YOU START YOUR UPPER BODY TORQUE!!! ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THERE IS MORE POWER IN YOUR UPPER BODY THAN YOUR LOWER BODY IS GUARANTEEING THEIR BATSPEED WILL NOT BE OPTIMIZED!!!
> > 
> > HELLO SHAWN!
> > 
> > well said about the format of this site.. it needs some work! but the people on this site need even more..
> > they endorse & obsess the mechanics of the actual swing to the exclusion of far more important factors.. like the STANCE!! jack refuses to this day to acknowledge the stance is nothing but "style",
> > & HE HAS YET TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE STANCE HAS ANY EFFECT ON SUCCESS RATE!!! HUH?!?!
> > LOGIC  would suggest that if hitters stand in different locations in the box, & hold their feet, hands, arms, & bats in different positions pre-swing, THEN THE END RESULT MUST BE DIFFERENT!!!...  make sense?
> > 
> > concerning gGRIFFEY:
> > YOU DID NOT READ  OR PAY MUCH ATTENTION TO WHAT I WROTE:
> > G R A V I T Y..  is the geat equalizer.. if you hold your hands up eye-high, YOU WILL BE COMING DOWN IF JUST THE SLIGHTEST BIT, THUS INCREASING YOUR BATSPEED ENOUGH SO YOU ARE ON TIME RATHER THAN LATE!!! HANDS UP IS A GOOD THING!!! 
> > TO SAY OTHERWISE IS TO BELIEVE THAT BASEBALL PLAYERS ARE IMMUNE TO THE LAWS OF PHYSICS!! ...which they are not.
> 
> 
> George,
> 
> I stopped reading your post after the first sentence. The reason is you have proven you no very little to nothing about hitting a baseball. I NEVER HAVE SAID THE LEGS DO NOT PLAY A PART IN THE SWING, but you constantly suggest I have.
> Read my post again and show me where I have said the legs do not play a role in the swing process.
> 
> Graylon

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